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DanTurksGhost

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#30 : May 11, 2008, 10:10:08 PM

Or maybe he meant Garcia making the Pro Bowl for the first time since he was a 49er.

Even though that statement is a little bit over dramatic, the fact is that Garcia had his most productive season in the league since 2003, and Gruden did elevate him from another team's backup to a starter and a Pro Bowler. So yeah, while a bit grand, "rejuvenated" isn't a word that is completely outside of reality.

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#31 : May 11, 2008, 11:12:35 PM

Jon Gruden has built his reputation on the ability to rejuvenate the careers of veteran quarterbacks, such as Rich Gannon in Oakland and now Jeff Garcia in Tampa. The knock against him is that he’s been unable to work his magic on a neophyte. We hear, however, that he’s determined to finally groom a young quarterback, and rookie QB Josh Johnson has been targeted as the one case Gruden finally will crack.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/NFC/NFC+South/Tampa+Bay/WWHI/2008/wwhi050908.htm
Why oh why don't you have the rolling on the floor laughing smilie?? This is hilarious!!  LOL!! Never done it but going to now?! LOL!!

No, pigs haven't started flying... No, hell hasn't froze over... The Tampa Bay Rays are #1 in the AL"

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#32 : May 11, 2008, 11:14:15 PM

Garcia played better in Philly than here.

bucjoe

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#33 : May 12, 2008, 12:41:46 AM

Mtn, AGAIN I agree with you.  Doug Williams was a hero to all who loved the Bucs at that time.  In the first couple of years, I took a lot of heat because I defended him to a lot of people.  Soon he won EVERYBODY over.  He had one of the biggest hearts I ever saw.  He took some hits NO qb should ever have to take.  I'll never forget a play he made where he went back to pass, got rushed and took off running down the sideline (not a real LONG run) towards the end zone.  He got close to the goal line, was hit and knocked back, reeled, came forward again, got knocked backwards again, reeled backwards, almost went down, came forward again, was hit again, and dragged the tackler into the end zone.  The stadium almost didn't survive the roar that went up as he fought those tacklers.  It almost makes me cry just to remember his effort!!

Those who didn't see him play should never read the quality of his play by his statistics.  Not only did he put that team on his back and carry it with his leadership, the passing offense the Bucs ran at that time was nothing like the current passing attacks in the NFL.  John McKay believed in running the ball, and when you DID pass, you went for big plays.  It wasn't dink and dunk and improve your completion percentage.  It was "throw the ball down the field".  That hurt Doug's completion percentage but we made big plays in the passing game,  when the receiver could hold on to the rockets that Doug threw.  That is another thing that hurt his statistics.  Until we drafted Kevin House, NOBODY on the team could consistantly catch his passes.  When House came aboard, and began to catch his passes, things changed.

Doug was a great qb for the Bucs.  He went on to make in mark in another, different kind of offense.

What many don't know is that Joe Gibbs was the OC for the Bucs when they drafted Doug.  He went and scouted him personally, and came back and convinced the Bucs to draft Doug.  When Doug came back into the NFL, where did he go?  To the Washington Redskins where Joe Gibbs was the Head Coach.

.....just my opinion

dbtb135

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#34 : May 12, 2008, 01:52:30 AM

The difference is after 4 starts, Gradkowski was doing things bad QB's do, not things rookie QB's do. Anyone who still held out hope after the Thanksgiving game was just fooling themself. I didn't need to see another pass from Gradkowski after the Dallas game to know he'd never be worth crap. With Simms, he was being bashed to holy hell after 1 start, and Johnson has been tossed under the bust after 1 rookie camp.

What are you talking about? All the places I've been frequenting, and Johnson has probably gotten more hype as the "QB of the future" than Luke, Grads, and Simms combined. I see 10x more people calling him a future pro bowler than a "bust", if you can even call him that. And the minute someone says "well, maybe he's not", they seemingly get attacked.

Johnson's got a stockpile of fanboys at the moment. "Tossed under the bus" is the furthest thing from the truth.

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#35 : May 12, 2008, 01:57:01 AM

The difference is after 4 starts, Gradkowski was doing things bad QB's do, not things rookie QB's do. Anyone who still held out hope after the Thanksgiving game was just fooling themself. I didn't need to see another pass from Gradkowski after the Dallas game to know he'd never be worth crap. With Simms, he was being bashed to holy hell after 1 start, and Johnson has been tossed under the bust after 1 rookie camp.

What are you talking about? All the places I've been frequenting, and Johnson has probably gotten more hype as the "QB of the future" than Luke, Grads, and Simms combined. I see 10x more people calling him a future pro bowler than a "bust", if you can even call him that. And the minute someone says "well, maybe he's not", they seemingly get attacked.

Johnson's got a stockpile of fanboys at the moment. "Tossed under the bus" is the furthest thing from the truth.
The kid is from a small school.  He is bound to get his fair share of haters.

Problem is, they are probably correct in their assumption.

But the problem with them is, they are hating for no good reason (because he has not done a damned thing in a game when the bullets are real).

Too many prognosticators.  Gotta wait and see.

EVERYONE during the draft is a Nostradamus.  EVERYONE.  Or at least they think they are.

I am not a fanboy, I am not tossing him under anything with a lot of wheels.

I think I will wait and see with this kid.

BUt we all know he was accuarate, fast and quick, and smart.  Can he turn all that into something at the NFL level?


dbtb135

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#36 : May 12, 2008, 02:16:26 AM

The kid is from a small school.  He is bound to get his fair share of haters.

Problem is, they are probably correct in their assumption.

I really don't see his "fair share of haters" though. Go to any site that has anything to do with the Bucs, this one included, and you'll see countless posts about how high this kid's ceiling is, or how athletic he is, or his stats, etc.

This topic for example, I don't see one poster saying a bad thing about Johnson.

Froggy

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#37 : May 12, 2008, 04:15:16 AM

The kid is from a small school. He is bound to get his fair share of haters.

Problem is, they are probably correct in their assumption.

I really don't see his "fair share of haters" though. Go to any site that has anything to do with the Bucs, this one included, and you'll see countless posts about how high this kid's ceiling is, or how athletic he is, or his stats, etc.

This topic for example, I don't see one poster saying a bad thing about Johnson.
Some of us are laughing our heads off, tho.

No, pigs haven't started flying... No, hell hasn't froze over... The Tampa Bay Rays are #1 in the AL"

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#38 : May 12, 2008, 04:23:28 AM

I have to admit I'm excited by the potential this kid brings. I'm not making any predicitons. But such as the case with Simms, and fans who bash Josh before he gets a chance to legitimately prove himself, are an ignorant fools. I have already read Johnson bashing posts, and the draft was only 2 weeks ago. The same fools bashing Johnson are some that would have licked Badkowski's jock strap after the Bengals game Justin Smith gave us. Maybe he is the QB of the future, maybe McCown is. Until these young kids have had enough time to prove to us they can't cut it, the fans should be supportive. Let's face it, in the grand scheme of things Doug Williams was average, but he is hailed by us fans as a hero. That just goes to show you how dismal our QB position has been for 32 years. I will forever stand behind any young QB as being the next "QB of the Buccs future" until we get one, or I die. You knuckleheads should do the same.



PS. Don't force me to make a list of Josh Johnson bashers.

Doug Williams lifted this team out of the hole it was in and into the play-offs...............he will never be forgotten for that. As a former season ticket holder from day one, he wasn't looked at as average by any means. Does this cloud my judgment ? I don't think it does, but then again it was a long time ago. It was a great story man and some of my all time favorites were on those teams.

ps - go ahead and make that list. :D
Case in point. Ask me a Buccaners fan about Favre? Great QB. Ask me about Moon? Great QB. Ask about Elway.......Ask a Lions fan, a Chiefs fan and a Jaguars fan about Williams, and I'm guessing they won't have much to say. Which was my point. He is a hero to us, but certainly wouldn't be in the conversation when asked to discuss best QB's of all time in the NFL. That is a clear indication of how dismal our QB situation has been. Our hero is just ho hum to everyone else.

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#39 : May 12, 2008, 07:41:19 AM

I have to admit I'm excited by the potential this kid brings. I'm not making any predicitons. But such as the case with Simms, and fans who bash Josh before he gets a chance to legitimately prove himself, are an ignorant fools. I have already read Johnson bashing posts, and the draft was only 2 weeks ago. The same fools bashing Johnson are some that would have licked Badkowski's jock strap after the Bengals game Justin Smith gave us. Maybe he is the QB of the future, maybe McCown is. Until these young kids have had enough time to prove to us they can't cut it, the fans should be supportive. Let's face it, in the grand scheme of things Doug Williams was average, but he is hailed by us fans as a hero. That just goes to show you how dismal our QB position has been for 32 years. I will forever stand behind any young QB as being the next "QB of the Buccs future" until we get one, or I die. You knuckleheads should do the same.



PS. Don't force me to make a list of Josh Johnson bashers.

Doug Williams lifted this team out of the hole it was in and into the play-offs...............he will never be forgotten for that. As a former season ticket holder from day one, he wasn't looked at as average by any means. Does this cloud my judgment ? I don't think it does, but then again it was a long time ago. It was a great story man and some of my all time favorites were on those teams.

ps - go ahead and make that list. :D
Case in point. Ask me a Buccaners fan about Favre? Great QB. Ask me about Moon? Great QB. Ask about Elway.......Ask a Lions fan, a Chiefs fan and a Jaguars fan about Williams, and I'm guessing they won't have much to say. Which was my point. He is a hero to us, but certainly wouldn't be in the conversation when asked to discuss best QB's of all time in the NFL. That is a clear indication of how dismal our QB situation has been. Our hero is just ho hum to everyone else.

That's not our fault and certainly not our place to continually place him in mediocrity where he simply does not belong.  And lets not talk about who fans like.  If that's what you want just pack up and go to Hawaii with the other millions of unreasonable popular voting fans.  If this team was mediocre, Doug made them that wih his stellar play.  Especially in a time where him being the starter, much less the number one draft pick was not popular...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


bucjoe

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#40 : May 12, 2008, 10:55:57 AM

Perfectly put Boid!

Perfectly put Chevelair!  Every young qb has many battles,  Doug had a few none of the others had.

.....just my opinion
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