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#15 : May 17, 2008, 02:20:18 PM

And when Graham finally gets a play over 30 yards then you talk about how much more he brings than Cadillac.

Well lets see, in 3 seasons, Carnell has 10 tds and 294 receiving yds. Graham had 10 tds and 324 receiving yds LAST SEASON..... in limited starts, i might add.

In his 57 touches last season, Carnell put the ball on the carpet twice. In Graham's 271 touches, he fumbled once.

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#16 : May 17, 2008, 02:22:13 PM

And when Graham finally gets a play over 30 yards then you talk about how much more he brings than Cadillac.


Sorry but we can find guys off the street to just run behind Joseph, Trueblood and Sears and then go down.

Forget the 30+ yard runs, Graham is valuable bacause of the 4 yard runs he gets consistently, which is something Caddy could never do.

Can we give Cadillac more than 3 games behind Joseph, Sears and Trueblood?



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#17 : May 17, 2008, 02:24:49 PM

Can we give Cadillac more than 3 games behind Joseph, Sears and Trueblood?

No, we can't.....because he can't stay healthy.

Question for you... after enjoying Grahams productivity, do you think that Gruden will be comfy going back to a rb that is non-existant in the passing game?

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#18 : May 17, 2008, 02:30:18 PM

And when Graham finally gets a play over 30 yards then you talk about how much more he brings than Cadillac.

Well lets see, in 3 seasons, Carnell has 10 tds and 294 receiving yds. Graham had 10 tds and 324 receiving yds LAST SEASON..... in limited starts, i might add.

In his 57 touches last season, Carnell put the ball on the carpet twice. In Graham's 271 touches, he fumbled once.

You're leaving out a ton of variables. Graham wasn't losing goal line carries to Alstott or coming out in pass situations for Pittman. Those players were gone/hurt.

Allen isn't as misguided as you. Thats why he's given contracts to THREE other backs (Bennett, Dunn, Askew) and not Graham.

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#19 : May 17, 2008, 02:31:43 PM

And when Graham finally gets a play over 30 yards then you talk about how much more he brings than Cadillac.

Well lets see, in 3 seasons, Carnell has 10 tds and 294 receiving yds. Graham had 10 tds and 324 receiving yds LAST SEASON..... in limited starts, i might add.

In his 57 touches last season, Carnell put the ball on the carpet twice. In Graham's 271 touches, he fumbled once.
I'd rather have touchdowns than 30+ yard runs. Graham just has a nose for the end zone.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#20 : May 17, 2008, 02:33:37 PM

Allen isn't as misguided as you. Thats why he's given contracts to THREE other backs (Bennett, Dunn, Askew) and not Graham.
Allen also gave contracts to Derrick Deese, Todd Steussie, Matt Stinchcomb, and Charlie Garner, so I'm not declaring him the authority on personnel decisions.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.



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#21 : May 17, 2008, 02:38:28 PM

Graham wasn't losing goal line carries to Alstott or coming out in pass situations for Pittman.

Granted, Alstott did steal the 1 yd tds from Carnell but nothing more than that. As for Pittman, did it every occur to you WHY Carnell was not on the field in passing situations?

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#22 : May 17, 2008, 02:45:14 PM

And when Graham finally gets a play over 30 yards then you talk about how much more he brings than Cadillac.

Well lets see, in 3 seasons, Carnell has 10 tds and 294 receiving yds. Graham had 10 tds and 324 receiving yds LAST SEASON..... in limited starts, i might add.

In his 57 touches last season, Carnell put the ball on the carpet twice. In Graham's 271 touches, he fumbled once.
I'd rather have touchdowns than 30+ yard runs. Graham just has a nose for the end zone.

Last season Cadillac had 43% of his carries inside the 10 result in TDs. Graham just had 30% of his carries inside the 10 go for TDs.

Overall, 5.3% of Cadillac's touches went for TDs. Only 3.7% of Graham's touches went for TDs.
4.4% of Bennett's touches went for TDs.

Your "nose for the end zone" argument stinks.



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#23 : May 17, 2008, 02:51:18 PM

Its quite obvious that we view the rb situation very differently. You base your views on potential while I base my views on production. How bout we agree to disagree.

Thanx for your participation.

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#24 : May 17, 2008, 05:01:35 PM

imo,why Garcia,and Graham aren't already signed with nice raises ...say in the 3.5 ...4 million and given extensions maybe 3 or 4 yrs to Grham and 2 to Garcia is probably because their agents are asking for 7 mill each....and that just ain't gonna happen...and both are not dealing from a strong position....Garcias to old to pull any holdouts and Graham has a about 3rbs and maybe 4 after 6 games that could be very serviceable...it would be suicide to his career if he held out...if they can give Dunn 3 million to be the 3rd down back then they damn sure can give EG 3.5 ...to 4 with a 3 yr extension.

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#25 : May 17, 2008, 05:10:00 PM

imo,why Garcia,and Graham aren't already signed with nice raises ...say in the 3.5 ...4 million and given extensions maybe 3 or 4 yrs to Grham and 2 to Garcia is probably because their agents are asking for 7 mill each....and that just ain't gonna happen...and both are not dealing from a strong position....Garcias to old to pull any holdouts and Graham has a about 3rbs and maybe 4 after 6 games that could be very serviceable...it would be suicide to his career if he held out...if they can give Dunn 3 million to be the 3rd down back then they damn sure can give EG 3.5 ...to 4 with a 3 yr extension.

What's the rush, from the team perspective?  We don't owe them anything.  Anything they get is out of the goodness of the teams pocket.  Bottom line is they are signed and have a responsibility to show up.  I'm cool with Graham playing the no show game for voluntary OTA's.  It only hurts his chances of starting.  He was already going to be in a fight with Dunn.  Now Dun and Bennet get all the reps and he is truly in danger of being the one year wonder some believe he is.  At least we know where his head is at. Be different if he were coming to workout and keeping his trap shut and working hard.  It's difficult for me to back a guy who had one good year, is under contract, did little more than was expected of him, and now wants more money...

How do you who think the team owes them a raise feel about giving money to guys who are obviously prepared to hold out to get it.  Great teammates?  Right... Dependable? Certainly not me first guys....  Those are some guys I'm not feeling  good about routing for. Especially Garcia and Graham.  One has been a journeyman going for the big buck and the other did his own contract.  Why are we feeling sorry for these guys saying they deserve anything?

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#26 : May 17, 2008, 05:14:05 PM

Be different if he were coming to workout and keeping his trap shut and working hard. It's difficult for me to back a guy who had one good year, is under contract, did little more than was expected of him, and now wants more money...

What?  He's come to work out and kept his trap shut every year.  He has had as many good years (one) as he has had opportunities.  And how can you possibly say he did "little more than was expected of him"?  Should we go back and pull all the doom and gloom threads from last year when our other backs were injured.  Who predicted he was going to step in and make this offense run smoother than it ever has under Gruden?  Of course he wants more money.  His current contract was for a 3rd stringer; when he got the opportunity last year he proved that he was more than that.




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#27 : May 17, 2008, 05:25:57 PM

What? He's come to work out and kept his trap shut every year. He has had as many good years (one) as he has had opportunities. And how can you possibly say he did "little more than was expected of him"? Should we go back and pull all the doom and gloom threads from last year when our other backs were injured. Who predicted he was going to step in and make this offense run smoother than it ever has under Gruden? Of course he wants more money. His current contract was for a 3rd stringer; when he got the opportunity last year he proved that he was more than that.

Agreed!!

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#28 : May 17, 2008, 05:30:11 PM

Where does it say Dunn is going to be the third down back?

I thought that's what TC was for-to find out.

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981



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#29 : May 17, 2008, 05:30:43 PM

Be different if he were coming to workout and keeping his trap shut and working hard. It's difficult for me to back a guy who had one good year, is under contract, did little more than was expected of him, and now wants more money...

What?  He's come to work out and kept his trap shut every year.  He has had as many good years (one) as he has had opportunities.  And how can you possibly say he did "little more than was expected of him"?  Should we go back and pull all the doom and gloom threads from last year when our other backs were injured.  Who predicted he was going to step in and make this offense run smoother than it ever has under Gruden?  Of course he wants more money.  His current contract was for a 3rd stringer; when he got the opportunity last year he proved that he was more than that.

I suppose the Pack should have locked up Samkon Gado after 05 then?  After all, he had one opportunity and had 1 good year. 

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