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InlandTaipan

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: October 09, 2006, 03:42:27 PM

Two very good coaches left last year and were replaced with new ones.

here is an example





both are shovels aren't they...now tell me a coaching changes doesn't make a difference to players

Rusty

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#1 : October 09, 2006, 06:41:44 PM

They are getting a little long in the tooth; Brooks, Spires & Quarles, have a huge underachiever(Booger), lost their heart and soul (Marinelli/Tomlin) and have a Mr. Patty Cake/Casper the Ghost not showing up for loooooooooooong stretches. This defense is predicated of dline pressure and we're getting beat at the point of attack.

                \'Every day above ground is a good day\'

Boid Fink

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#2 : October 09, 2006, 06:43:30 PM

One shovel is useful for one thing.

The other shovel is useful for another.

Doesn't mean that they both can't dig, and it doesn't mean that they are bad either.

I am sure the coaches tell the guys to go out and get blown around on runs, and miss tackles entirely...

They don't actually, for those of you who might miss the real point here.

The Cover Two is still in place.  And if Vets can't get pumped up and train effectively on their own, or motivate themselves properly, it is all on them, IMO.  The system is still the same, the Main Man is still there, and the leadership is still intact.  It is on the players not getting it done.


InlandTaipan

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#3 : October 09, 2006, 07:38:15 PM

One shovel is useful for one thing.

The other shovel is useful for another.

Doesn't mean that they both can't dig, and it doesn't mean that they are bad either.

I am sure the coaches tell the guys to go out and get blown around on runs, and miss tackles entirely...

They don't actually, for those of you who might miss the real point here.

The Cover Two is still in place. And if Vets can't get pumped up and train effectively on their own, or motivate themselves properly, it is all on them, IMO. The system is still the same, the Main Man is still there, and the leadership is still intact. It is on the players not getting it done.

Granted the system is still the same, The Bucs returned 10 of 11 starters on defense...but the coaching for the front four is different, the DB coach is different and that's where the Bucs and those veterans are suffering. Not saying the new guys aren't good coaches it's just their different. Yes it's Monte's scheme they are working with but I have to wonder if the vets on defense are having problems with the techniques they are being coached. After all they had the same coaches (up front and DB's) for many years so adjusting to a new technice could be a problem.

JavaBuc

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#4 : October 09, 2006, 07:53:57 PM

I put all the blame on Jethro.   He isn't getting the job done.

Boid Fink

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#5 : October 09, 2006, 08:06:53 PM

I put all the blame on Jethro. He isn't getting the job done.

You mean Terry Tate?


Warhorse

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#6 : October 09, 2006, 08:12:30 PM


 The 2 coaches are a huge loss, there's just no doubt.

 I still think the tackling is horrid, and the Bucs need a good DT, MLB and 2 good safeties.
 
 The canes have 2 very good safeties. I think at least one is coming out this year.
 

naplesbuc

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#7 : October 09, 2006, 08:13:19 PM

I don't see how the lost assistants affects the quality of the tackling.

Boid Fink

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#8 : October 09, 2006, 10:18:41 PM

I don't see how the lost assistants affects the quality of the tackling.

It doesn't.  At all.

The scheme is the same, most of the guys on defense have been familiar with how to run it according to theory. 

They just are failing to complete the "manly" part of the task, which is tackling.


InlandTaipan

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#9 : October 09, 2006, 10:21:18 PM

I don't see how the lost assistants affects the quality of the tackling.

As far as the "poor tackling" or "missed tackles" there are always alto of them in the games but it's never really been mentioned or brought up as often, it's brought up occasionally but not frequently.

The Bucs defense is built on speed as one of the top quality the coaches are looking for in a player, the down side of that is that you usually get a smaller player with that speed. Nothing really wrong with that except you have to deal with or expect that player can't do many one on one tackles, they rely heavily on assistance from the other players. The Bucs defense is a gang tackling type Defense. If someone misses their assignment or is late getting there they usually miss the initial contact and need to "catchup" to the offensive player. In the past the Bucs defense were masters at getting to their assignments but there have been several changes and those changes haven't been able to get to their assignments as well.

Let's also not forget that good teams and coaches know how to prepare for speed alto better now then in years past. Now offenses are slowing down the players as they try to fill their gaps or assignments. Coaches are changing the gaps on offense, moving the offensive linemen or double tight-ends sets as a change up to create more gaps and assignments then the defense can handle.

These two new coordinators came from a college system that was run semi pro-like but the week in and week out teams they were facing were not always quality talent. These new guys have either A.) have never been any type of coach in the NFL or B.) Have not been in the league for awhile. I know the vets are supposed to know the "System" but the vets still have to deal with their new (or shall I say different) techniques these new assistance's are using during the practices session.

Just a thought...

InlandTaipan

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#10 : October 09, 2006, 10:26:53 PM

It doesn't. At all.

The scheme is the same, most of the guys on defense have been familiar with how to run it according to theory.

They just are failing to complete the "manly" part of the task, which is tackling.

That's like saying changing from Dungy to Gruden didn't make a difference and I know you wouldn't be saying that...you're smarter then that Boid.

Boid Fink

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#11 : October 09, 2006, 10:33:48 PM

That's like saying changing from Dungy to Gruden didn't make a difference and I know you wouldn't be saying that...you're smarter then that Boid.

You give me too much credit on the intelligence quotient.

In a sense, I see what you are saying.  But on a team that runs the exact same system, with basically the exact same players, with the exact same D.C. that they have had for years and years and years, a few tweaks might make a difference.  But dropping from a #1 overall, to near the bottom of the stack?  The coaching can't be that bad.  But the age factor definitely pops into my mind.  That and the way the offense has been playing (early on) probably made them try to do too much  (as Ronde said), and it might take a few weeks for the guys to settle down.

Ronde has a nice new deal, and maybe that has factored in.  Maybe he lost his "edge", and that was getting the numbers...who knows?

Q is very old for a MLB, DB might be pushing too hard...I dunno.

It is a good thought on your part, but I can't see it make that much of a difference.  Aren't most of these guys disciples anyway?

Either way, we all see the tackles being missed.  We all see Booger doing nothing.  We all see the speed isn't there.  We all know the turnovers aren't being generated.

I think it is age.


InlandTaipan

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#12 : October 09, 2006, 10:42:34 PM

You give me too much credit on the intelligence quotient.

In a sense, I see what you are saying. But on a team that runs the exact same system, with basically the exact same players, with the exact same D.C. that they have had for years and years and years, a few tweaks might make a difference. But dropping from a #1 overall, to near the bottom of the stack? The coaching can't be that bad. But the age factor definitely pops into my mind. That and the way the offense has been playing (early on) probably made them try to do too much (as Ronde said), and it might take a few weeks for the guys to settle down.

Ronde has a nice new deal, and maybe that has factored in. Maybe he lost his "edge", and that was getting the numbers...who knows?

Q is very old for a MLB, DB might be pushing too hard...I dunno.

It is a good thought on your part, but I can't see it make that much of a difference. Aren't most of these guys disciples anyway?

Either way, we all see the tackles being missed. We all see Booger doing nothing. We all see the speed isn't there. We all know the turnovers aren't being generated.

I think it is age.


In that case I would say there are several factors in play right now, each making a contribution to the mistakes and bad performance on the field.

I guess I should have titled the thread a little differently but with everyone being so frustrated with what we're seeing on the field it's been easy to to just spout off without putting at least a little bit of thought into what we really want to say. Some of the threads and what peoples have been saying are just out right ridiculous but where there is the misinformed there are libraries.

InlandTaipan

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#13 : October 09, 2006, 10:43:27 PM

By the Way...nice chatting with you Boid, as always

Boid Fink

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#14 : October 09, 2006, 10:46:56 PM

By the Way...nice chatting with you Boid, as always

I feel like a **CENSORED** for not helping you in your game that one time.  Sorry man.

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