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DanTurksGhost

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#15 : December 12, 2006, 09:45:00 PM

DTG, As I've said before, the history on round 1 QBs winning the SB is not that good.

Well, let me throw this little bit of information at you:

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers have selected four quarterbacks in the first round of the NFL draft. Of those four QB's, THREE of them have won a Super Bowl -- with other teams. Isn't about time the Bucs select a QB that high and have him take this team all the way?

naplesbuc

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#16 : December 12, 2006, 10:45:13 PM

The Bucs better be pretty coy about this or Al Davis will try and steal Russell just to stick it in the Glazers' faces.

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#17 : December 13, 2006, 01:32:21 AM

Our D is still a lot better than the O, and they have some players in the wings.  Winborn is only on the bench because DB is keeping him out.  Zemaitis should develop over time and Buchanon looks like he is ready to play some ball again.  If Rice sticks around and Kelly comes back 100% the defense only needs a couple of new players.  A safety and LB in free agency, plus a 2nd round DT in the draft should give Monte enough to get results next year.

No one knows what Winborn could be here. Same with Zemaitis. I haven't seen much of Buchanon here, but he hasn't looked too good in Oakland or Houston...at all. I might trust him as a nickel corner who handles some returns, but not much past that. Still, such a little part of the defensive equation.

I really hope Rice is done here. He's finally slowed down, he's getting to an age where edge rushers start to slow down considerably. He's just the furthest thing from what we should be building on. We need to start looking for Rice's replacement now, not hoping he comes back to his old form because thats pretty unlikely. Kelly is also a question mark, even though no one wants to admit it. We need a future WSLB, a future Sim, a future SS, and a noteworthy DT. All big parts of the D, all positions with a big lack of young talent right now and not really a ton of reliable talent past our starters. If we can get a Briggs or someone on that level, I'd be a lot less worried about the defense.

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#18 : December 13, 2006, 01:33:37 AM

I still say we need a draft like we had in 1995 when we got Sapp and Brooks in the same year, this defense needs some huge playmakers..   I think the offense with the right QB and another WR will put enough points up.. I say go back to Bucball and get Monte, everything he needs and then some....
BK comes back also in the equation..

So the best DE DT S...OLB

As do I, but it seems Gruden will continue with his hard-on for offensive talent.

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#19 : December 13, 2006, 08:14:26 AM

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. Al Davis would love nothing more than to stick it to us. What better way to do it than to steal a QB we covet? He's got a stronger arm than Quinn and could match up with Moss. I don't think Moss is going anywhere. Tim Brown used to talk a lot of crap and publicly rip Al Davis, but they kept him anyway. Al loves this kind of player. He might even take notice on how much of an impact Vince Young is making and decide he wants his own Vince Young. The draft could then play out like this-

#1 JaMarcus Russell QB
#2 Brady Quinn QB
#3 Whoever is left.

What if the lions or raiders sign Simms?  Do you think they would still be going after a QB in the first.  I think Simms would be a good fit out with the Raiders and if they sign him I think they might go OL or WR.  Especially if they trade away Porter or Moss.  It would be ironic if Simms being let go ends up giving us a franchise QB.

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#20 : December 13, 2006, 08:54:50 AM

I would be suprised to see Russell picked in the top 3 by us, I just don't think he is at that level but if we need a QB anything could happen. The vince young camparisions to me are way off based. Russell is not fast like young. Russell does have a gun and to me comes across as a Byron Leftwich. I like Russell but that being said I would be suprised if we take him at 3. Now if we were to acquire another pick via trade and use that to move into the 1st again or the packaging of Rice and a pick to get another 1st rounder I could see us taking him further down the line. I just don't see Russell as being a top 3 NFL pick, JMHO



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naplesbuc

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#21 : December 13, 2006, 09:03:51 AM

The comparison to Young is not based on speed.  The comparison is on overall athletic ability.   His release is much quicker than Leftwich and he is more mobile.

cvillebucfan

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#22 : December 13, 2006, 09:11:39 AM

He is more mobile than leftwich and most certainly has a quicker release. Russell is tall, has a big arm and is no question a good prospect but to take at #3 I would be suprised. I think we are flexible enough to trade picks or a player and a pick to get a 2nd 1st round pick. I think Joe Thomas is the best player in this draft when its all said and done prior to the draft and if he is there it would be hard not to select him. I still stand by the idea that we should try to get a 2nd 1st round pick and grab either Russell or Smith. I would rather have Smith but I wouldn't be upset one bit with Russell.



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#23 : December 13, 2006, 10:10:19 AM



I think the Bucs plan to try and fill some defensive holes via FA.

We need to do the exact opposite.



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#24 : December 13, 2006, 10:13:20 AM

I think the Bucs plan to try and fill some defensive holes via FA.

We need to do the exact opposite.

I sort of agree, Shag, except for two concerns:

1. We finally have money to spend in FA.
2. The best FAs this year are overwhelmingly on the defensive side of the ball.

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#25 : December 13, 2006, 10:21:52 AM


I sort of agree, Shag, except for two concerns:

1. We finally have money to spend in FA.
2. The best FAs this year are overwhelmingly on the defensive side of the ball.

That's true, but not taking into account the current players possibly available, we need veteran leadership on offense. We have a lot of young players and nobody to really teach them, especially at QB and OL. I'm not sure who's out there, but getting a good veteran center would be perfect for the OL. Draft defense while we have probowlers to look after them.



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#26 : December 13, 2006, 10:25:16 AM


I sort of agree, Shag, except for two concerns:

1. We finally have money to spend in FA.
2. The best FAs this year are overwhelmingly on the defensive side of the ball.

That's true, but not taking into account the current players possibly available, we need veteran leadership on offense. We have a lot of young players and nobody to really teach them, especially at QB and OL. I'm not sure who's out there, but getting a good veteran center would be perfect for the OL. Draft defense while we have probowlers to look after them.

Yeah...I would like to bring in a veteran leader at a key position on O...C would be good.  An emotional leader and veteran to keep the youth in check.

I just think that some of the conditions point to getting some D in FA.  I think we'll draft some high as well, though.

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#27 : December 13, 2006, 10:33:40 AM

JeMarcus Russell is a very nice QB prospect, but what about the QB's that may be available via trade/free agency:

- David Carr
- Byron Leftwich/David Garrard
- Chris Simms
- Daunte Culpepper
- Jeff Garcia
- Jake Plummer
- Mark Brunell

That list contains a few names that I wouldnt mind starting at QB for the Bucs next year.  As sexy as a top 3 QB would be, a franchise LT is tough to pass up.

acacius

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#28 : December 13, 2006, 10:52:26 AM

DTG,
As I've said before, the history on round 1 QBs winning the SB is not that good.

This is another fascinating statement about first round quarterbacks.  Let's look at this one in more depth.  I chose to go back to 1980 quite arbitrarily.  It seemed like a round-ish number:

Superbowl - Winning QB - Pick Taken
XIV - Bradshaw 1-1
XV Plunkett 1-1
XVI - Montana 3-82
XVII - Theismann 4-99
XVIII - Plunkett 1-1
XIX - Montana 3-82
XX - McMahon 1-5
XXI - Simms 1-7
XXII - Williams 1-17
XXIII - Montana 3-82
XXIV - Montana 3-82
XXV - Jeff Hostetler round 3-59 (took over for an injured Simms in week 15)
XXVI - Rypien 6-146
XVII - Aikman 1-1
XVIII - Aikman 1-1
XIX - Young (1st pick, supplemental draft pick)
XXX - Aikman 1-1
XXXI - Favre  2-33
XXXII - Elway 1-1
XXXIII - Elway 1-1
XXXIV - Warner Undrafted
XXXV - Dilfer 1-6
XXXVI - Brady 6-199
XXXVII - Johnson 9-227
XXXVIII - Brady 6-199
XXXIX - Brady 6-199
XL - Roethlisberger 1-11

So, that's 18 different qbs winning Superbowls in that timeframe.  Of those 18, 9 of them were taken in the first round, 1 in the second, 2 in the  third, 1 in the fourth, 2 in the  sixth, 1 in the ninth, one undrafted and one in a suplemental draft.

If, on the other hand, you want to weight the players by the number of appearances, you have a total of 27 Superbowls in that time frame.  Of those 27, the winning qb was taken in the first round of their draft 13 times, in the second one time, in the third five times, in the fourth once, in the sixth four times, in the ninth once, undrafted once and once in a supplemental draft.

In summary, I completely disagree with your statement.  The history of round 1 qbs winning the superbowl is far, far better than that of qbs taken in any other round.

DanTurksGhost

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#29 : December 13, 2006, 11:03:33 AM

In summary, I completely disagree with your statement.  The history of round 1 qbs winning the superbowl is far, far better than that of qbs taken in any other round.

Like I said, 3 out of 4 of our first round QB picks have won a Super Bowl!
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