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bradentonian

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« #15 : December 13, 2006, 06:11:02 PM »

Who said Gruden was an offensive genius? Its a fair question.

Why? Who cares?
The person who started this thread, and every other person who says "Gruden's an offense genius yeah right."  Obviously it bothers them that somebody called Gruden an offensive genius.  So they must have heard somebody call him that, right? 

"The media"?  People?  They?  Who is the they in "They say Gruden is an offensive genius"?  This is still an issue so somebody must have heard it from somebody.  We deserve to know who it is.


Here are a few older articles from a mainstream media source (pro football weekly)

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Fantasy+Football/Fantasy+Columns/2002/bikoff110602.htm  (2002)

http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/features_1998/asktheexperts_113098.asp  (1998)




Itchalot

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« #16 : December 13, 2006, 06:33:14 PM »

Wow maybe some people do think he is a genius?  The players!
__________________________________
Offensive Genius?

By KATHERINE SMITH The Tampa Tribune

Published: Dec 9, 2006

"TAMPA - Last month, Sports Illustrated conducted a poll of more than 350 NFL players, asking what head coach has the best offensive mind.

Bucs coach Jon Gruden finished third, behind Denver's Mike Shanahan and Seattle's Mike Holmgren.

Gruden's peers still look at him as an offensive genius...."

http://www.tbo.com/sports/bucs/MGBJ443JHVE.html




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« #17 : December 13, 2006, 06:26:07 PM »

Gruden was a good coach, is a good coach and always will be a good coach. You need the horses.

Agreed. End of discussion. This goes for all good coaches. You dont forget how to coach. I laugh at the people on here, and (now that IM back in Tampa) the people on local sports talk radio. NOt because you think Gruden is a bad coach, but because you once thought he was a good one. I have no problem with agreeing to disagree with anyone who ALWAYS thought he was a bad coach (like my dad). But dont tell me you are jumping on and off the Gruden bandwagon every year.

I think he is a great coach and he will get his chance this offseason. So many coaching gurus around the league who are going to new teams where resources have been depleted and teams have done all the wrong things trying to fix their problems before they bring in the offensive/defensive guru to clear the mess. BUt when they dont wave their magic wand over their side of the ball and get things going right away people want to slam them. Marvin Lewis, Dungy, Gruden,  Holmgren (good example of a guy who was considered a guru, then went to a new team and didnt fix things right away and people started questioning him, and once again proved himself), Billick, Denny Green.


Itchalot

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« #18 : December 13, 2006, 06:27:22 PM »

RE: Bradentonian: 
OK one of them says "Has been known as something of a genius" while not directly calling him one. The 1998 guy just said he should be Coach of the Year, but didn't mention the word "genius".  So good detective work and you are getting warm, but its not quite the evidence I was looking for.  Maybe if you look back a little further than 1998?


bradentonian

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« #19 : December 13, 2006, 06:30:08 PM »

RE: Bradentonian:
OK one of them says "Has been known as something of a genius" while not directly calling him one. The 1998 guy just said he should be Coach of the Year, but didn't mention the word "genius".  So good detective work and you are getting warm, but its not quite the evidence I was looking for.  Maybe if you look back a little further than 1998?

Look again:
http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/features_1998/asktheexperts_113098.asp
Quote
Oakland’s Jon Gruden deserves to be Coach of the Year. The baby-faced head coach came over from Philadelphia with a reputation as an offensive genius


Edit:  Here is another from 2002:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Commentary/Columns/2002/nawrocki080802.htm
Quote
It starts at the top, where hard-working head coach Bill Callahan replaces the egocentric Jon Gruden. Gruden was an offensive genius in Oakland. He was intense, dedicated and had a strong desire to win a Super Bowl, but word out of Oakland is that many Raiders were growing tired of Gruden’s rah-rah approach.


Edit:  And another:
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-88938_ITM
Quote
DON'T LET JON GRUDEN'S boyish looks deceive you. Despite being the youngest head coach in the NFL at 38, he is considered one of the best in the business, an offensive genius who has a terrific rapport with his players.


alldaway

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« #20 : December 13, 2006, 06:57:08 PM »

I will agree with both sides here. Gruden did a great job during the SB run, and Gruden at times has done a really good job as a coach here. Unfortunately, the team that he has built is not good right now, and doesn't look like it is getting any better. The offense is terrible. The offense wasn't that good last year, either. It was still the defense that carried this team all the way through the season, and the defense is still better than the offense despite being at the absolute waning moments of its existance together.

Gruden did a good job in the past, but these last few years have been heartache (besides 2005). I think he will be here next year, but he has got to produce.

I am just tired of all the hate on both sides. You can criticize but you don't need to hate.

Well said.


DefenseWins

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« #21 : December 14, 2006, 01:08:51 PM »

Good post to the hyper-emotional Grudenista, Dalbuc!!

Some people are deathly afraid of change.

If anything, it is the Gruden supporters that wish to roll the dice with our team, using a losing coach. Now that is ABSURD!






It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!

doobiedoright

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« #22 : December 14, 2006, 03:37:37 PM »

Wow a civial discussion!
Very nice post one and all!


Warhorse

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« #23 : December 14, 2006, 04:01:59 PM »


 What the Bucs need most is a solid, veteran QB.

 To me, the Bucs are very similar to the Ravens. Great defense for years, one Superbowl win, cap hell for years and have struggled to find a QB.

 Garcia would have been a perfect fit here, imo.  Oh well.
 
 Perhaps we will get a gem this off-season. I don't really think any of the current QB's are going to be the answer. That's just my opinion.

 But if you don't have a QB that can move the team dow the field consistently, you are really, really going to struggle.

naplesbuc

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« #24 : December 14, 2006, 04:38:49 PM »

There are no good FA Qb's.  Garcia can't stretch the field and the Bucs don't have Westbrook.  Way too many people have jumped on the Garcia to Tampa bandwagon way too fast.

4bucs

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« #25 : December 14, 2006, 06:11:20 PM »

hope next year we add the shotgun ,should help out grads or Simms .

DefenseWins

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« #26 : December 14, 2006, 06:48:45 PM »

Thanks for the most ridiculous post of the year





It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!

jerseybucsfan

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« #27 : December 15, 2006, 03:01:04 AM »

Thanks, Turbo and everyone else. Ya know, dalbuc, I've been mad at your posts many times over the years. But I've got no hate for you, brother. We want the same thing in the end. And we WILL celebrate another Super Bowl title.
It might take a long time. We never thought we'd see it the first time, but it will happen again.

In Verner We Trust

karen anderson

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« #28 : December 15, 2006, 03:10:12 AM »

Please god, don't let it take another 30 yrs.

jerseybucsfan

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« #29 : December 15, 2006, 04:11:14 AM »

Will there even be an internet by then, Karen, or will we all be so advanced as to be like Captain Pike on Talos IV? What will we be on by then, our 23rd Rocky movie? Yeah, less than 30 years would be nice.

In Verner We Trust
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