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Shag

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« #30 : December 14, 2006, 03:09:23 PM »


I'm not sure we've seen enough to make this determination.  I also agree that DT is the biggest need, and several of the offseason scenarios I've seen posted on this board ignore it.

Winborn will be about 30 by the time Brooks retires or leaves. We might as well try for a long time replacement. We do need a DT though, and a pass rusher. I've seen about Demarcus Tyler, but it doesn't sound like he is the disruptive type.

FsuBucs1

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« #31 : December 14, 2006, 03:23:53 PM »


I'm not sure we've seen enough to make this determination.  I also agree that DT is the biggest need, and several of the offseason scenarios I've seen posted on this board ignore it.

Winborn will be about 30 by the time Brooks retires or leaves. We might as well try for a long time replacement. We do need a DT though, and a pass rusher. I've seen about Demarcus Tyler, but it doesn't sound like he is the disruptive type.


I agree that Winborn isn't the answer...he should only be considered a quality backup at the most.
Looking into the draft we could get a pretty good DT in the late 2nd-4th rds. Players like..Marcus Thomas, Florida or DeMarcus 'Tank' Tyler, North Carolina State would be there.
Thats why I feel getting a LB in the late first rd or early 2nd would be best for the team.



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« #32 : December 14, 2006, 03:25:08 PM »

UTSPARTAN- Where did you hear that Simms gave up 50% of his snaps. I'm not saying I don't believe you...was just wondering if you made that up as false hope or not. Listen I'll admit Simms kind of had a good game against Carolina, but don't act like he was out for an extended period of time in that game. We would have lost anyway. I honestly don't see us being much better with Simms. Maybe 1 or 2 more wins. Remember we were able to beat teams like the Bengals and Eagles because we barely turned the ball over. If Simms was going to be throwing 3 picks there then who knows if we win them games...

Either way, I think it's time to move on. Simms didn't exactly light it up last year either, WITH A GOOD RUNNING GAME AND #1 D. I mean I wouldn't call 10 TDs to 7 INTs and a "Drew Bledsoe-esque" playoff performance OUTSTANDING. We all just gave him the benefit of the doubt. Well he didn't do good and I know I wouldnt feel comfortable with him as starter.

I believe I heard it I from Steve that during training camp Bruce Gradkowski was getting more and more of the snaps under center during training camp. Some of that may have been because he didnt want the 1st team out there very much or whatever. Fact is the offense in general was putred in its first 3 games not because of Simms alone. Because they are not ready for the season.

"Listen I'll admit Simms kind of had a good game against Carolina, but don't act like he was out for an extended period of time in that game. We would have lost anyway."

There was NO telling when he got hurt. However he left in the second half of the game, after he basically blacked out on the field. He was gone for almost the whole 4th quarter. He drove the football team down the field and got upended for a touchdown, making plays on his own. Then next drive ut us in the red zone again before blacking out, in which he had to resort to killing the drive by running plays. Had he been in his right mind I believe we would have scored there and played MUCH MUCH better the remianing  part of the game. REMEMBER it was a last secong field goal that won that game for Carolina.  A Touchdown on Simm's last drive would have put Carolina out of reach.

"Simms didn't exactly light it up last year either, WITH A GOOD RUNNING GAME AND #1 D. "

Just for kicks toss these numbers around
In 2005 Chris Simms played in 11 regular season games and 1 playoff game.
He went 245-351(69%) for 2,203 yards scoring 10 touchdowns and (actually) 9 picks his average QB rating is 79.6

His worst game he went 11-19(57%) 118 0 touchdowns and 1 Pick with a QB rating of 54.3
Chris's best game was 15-29(52%) 279 3 touchdowns and 0 picks with a QB rating of 119.8
When Chris was in the game last year we scored 18.4 ppg and our offense looked potent.

So how do you say he didnt light it up last year? Look at the league leaders the average will be around 80 in QB rating

Whats the average of Bruce Almighty?

Dont give me the "hes just a rookie" garbage. Gruden himself said you dont get any better till you take snaps. Saying that Chris was basically a rookie last year...I believe Duemig even labeled the 2005 year "Chris's rookie season"

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« #33 : December 14, 2006, 03:29:47 PM »

Draft:

R1: Best player available, hopefully Adams (not RB)
R2: Defensive tackle or linebacker
R2: Linebacker or defensive tackle
R3: Cornerback
R4: Center
R5: Wide reciever

Don't care after that. If we can target positions last year, we can do the same this year.

Free Agency:

Release Rice, Spires, Quarles, and Wade.
Resign Simms and White.
Hope that a good center is available, otherwise see R4 or Mahan (hopefully not).
Sign veteran QB with WCO experience like Garcia to work with Simms.
Sign one of the better safeties.

Why the LBs? They are so far down the list right now... DB has Winborn behind him, Ruud is ready to start his development AS A STARTER, Nece is solid.

I would agree on alot of what you said, though.

Who are the best DTs out there?

Linebacker is not as big of a need as DE or UT right now. Brooks' successor has got to be found but if we could sign Briggs in FA, we could slide #55 over to SLB.

\"We are frustrated at not making the playoffs. It is a good start. That is all it is. It is a good start for something that we are going to be in the future.” - Josh Freeman

Shag

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« #34 : December 14, 2006, 03:36:51 PM »


Linebacker is not as big of a need as DE or UT right now. Brooks' successor has got to be found but if we could sign Briggs in FA, we could slide #55 over to SLB.

That's true. A high pick on the DL would come in here and start. That's why I would like Adams in the 1st and a DT and LB in the 2nd. Then you take care of all those problems. Signing Briggs shouldn't be counted on because there will be a lot of teams after him with a lot of cap space.

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« #35 : December 14, 2006, 03:42:23 PM »

UTSPARTAN- Where did you hear that Simms gave up 50% of his snaps. I'm not saying I don't believe you...was just wondering if you made that up as false hope or not. Listen I'll admit Simms kind of had a good game against Carolina, but don't act like he was out for an extended period of time in that game. We would have lost anyway. I honestly don't see us being much better with Simms. Maybe 1 or 2 more wins. Remember we were able to beat teams like the Bengals and Eagles because we barely turned the ball over. If Simms was going to be throwing 3 picks there then who knows if we win them games...

Either way, I think it's time to move on. Simms didn't exactly light it up last year either, WITH A GOOD RUNNING GAME AND #1 D. I mean I wouldn't call 10 TDs to 7 INTs and a "Drew Bledsoe-esque" playoff performance OUTSTANDING. We all just gave him the benefit of the doubt. Well he didn't do good and I know I wouldnt feel comfortable with him as starter.

I believe I heard it I from Steve that during training camp Bruce Gradkowski was getting more and more of the snaps under center during training camp. Some of that may have been because he didnt want the 1st team out there very much or whatever. Fact is the offense in general was putred in its first 3 games not because of Simms alone. Because they are not ready for the season.

"Listen I'll admit Simms kind of had a good game against Carolina, but don't act like he was out for an extended period of time in that game. We would have lost anyway."

There was NO telling when he got hurt. However he left in the second half of the game, after he basically blacked out on the field. He was gone for almost the whole 4th quarter. He drove the football team down the field and got upended for a touchdown, making plays on his own. Then next drive ut us in the red zone again before blacking out, in which he had to resort to killing the drive by running plays. Had he been in his right mind I believe we would have scored there and played MUCH MUCH better the remianing  part of the game. REMEMBER it was a last secong field goal that won that game for Carolina.  A Touchdown on Simm's last drive would have put Carolina out of reach.

"Simms didn't exactly light it up last year either, WITH A GOOD RUNNING GAME AND #1 D. "

Just for kicks toss these numbers around
In 2005 Chris Simms played in 11 regular season games and 1 playoff game.
He went 245-351(69%) for 2,203 yards scoring 10 touchdowns and (actually) 9 picks his average QB rating is 79.6

His worst game he went 11-19(57%) 118 0 touchdowns and 1 Pick with a QB rating of 54.3
Chris's best game was 15-29(52%) 279 3 touchdowns and 0 picks with a QB rating of 119.8
When Chris was in the game last year we scored 18.4 ppg and our offense looked potent.

So how do you say he didnt light it up last year? Look at the league leaders the average will be around 80 in QB rating

Whats the average of Bruce Almighty?

Dont give me the "hes just a rookie" garbage. Gruden himself said you dont get any better till you take snaps. Saying that Chris was basically a rookie last year...I believe Duemig even labeled the 2005 year "Chris's rookie season"


I'm not here to compare Grads and Simms.  I DON'T THINK EITHER IS THE ANSWER.  And if you think 18 pts a game with 10 TDs in 11 games is LIGHTING THINGS UP....then you must have not seen a good offense in a while.

Try watching the Chargers.  If they don't score over 30, people are worried about the offense.

ok ok...SIMMS IS BETTER THEN GRADKOWSKI.  Is that what you want to hear?  Either way we are screwed next year if either of them is starting.  We need somebody else...I'm hearing grumblings of JeMarcus Russell....and to tell u what..I'd take him over Simms and Grads.

Only reason I say keep Grads around is because he isn't a bad option to come in if our starter gets hurt.  I dont want Simms back because he isnt a starting NFL QB.  Opposing teams got tape on him which is why he hasn't looked good since idk last year......

Simms wont stay to be the back-up.  Keep Grads and McCown..and let's stop torchering ourselfs with sub par QBs....

why couldn't last year off-season be this year.  Drew Brees, Culpepper.

No instead we get rejects like Shaub and Simms.  Please spare me...both back-up QBs.  

Shag

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« #36 : December 14, 2006, 03:47:46 PM »


Only reason I say keep Grads around is because he isn't a bad option to come in if our starter gets hurt.  I dont want Simms back because he isnt a starting NFL QB.  Opposing teams got tape on him which is why he hasn't looked good since idk last year......


I think Gruden opened up the playbook too soon with him, and the rest of the offense isn't working together yet either. Both Brad Johnson and Griese had similar things happen to them at the beginning of their last years here. Simms needs experience playing, not just learning the offense. He hasn't even had a full season. He might be our best option due to his classroom knowledge of the offense. He has that edge over everybody.

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« #37 : December 14, 2006, 03:51:04 PM »

Simms 1 TD to 7 INT.


He had a whole off-season knowing he was the starter.  I understand Gruden didn't play his starters much in pre-season, but no team plays their starters alot.  Should Gruden play them more?  Sure he should...but I dont care if you u haven't played an NFL game in 4 years...you still should be able to do better then Simms did his first 3 games.

BTW...i'm talking about Wienke who threw for over 420 yards last week.

If Simms is our best option, then WE better start rooting for a different team.  Simms has to go..somewhere else....grads has to go...to the bench.

We need to bring in either a 1st round rookie, Plummer, LEFTWICH, or Culpepper.



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« #38 : December 14, 2006, 03:58:55 PM »

Simms 1 TD to 7 INT.


He had a whole off-season knowing he was the starter. I understand Gruden didn't play his starters much in pre-season, but no team plays their starters alot. Should Gruden play them more? Sure he should...but I dont care if you u haven't played an NFL game in 4 years...you still should be able to do better then Simms did his first 3 games.

BTW...i'm talking about Wienke who threw for over 420 yards last week.

If Simms is our best option, then WE better start rooting for a different team. Simms has to go..somewhere else....grads has to go...to the bench.

We need to bring in either a 1st round rookie, Plummer, LEFTWICH, or Culpepper.

No other team played their QB LESS than Gruden with Simms....it was documented and compared at the beginning of the season.

Fact of the matter is  think after April Gruden realized that he wanted to groom Bruce for the job. He gave him the reps in training camp and in prseason...when Simms went down it was his perfect opportunity to plug him in.

I am a Gruden supporter, dont think that I am hammering Gruden, I just tink he made a miscalculation with Gradkowski. Not a big deal the road to he superbowl is paved with failure QB's...its just how long you keep them in there for. After this week I dont think we have the Bruce Gardkowski promblem anymore.

The turnover machine will be benched



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« #39 : December 14, 2006, 03:59:57 PM »

I think we go as far as tagging Simms....



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« #40 : December 14, 2006, 04:01:51 PM »

I think we go as far as tagging Simms....

You mean use the Franchise tag on him?

Let me make this clear: That WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Ever.

Ever.



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« #41 : December 14, 2006, 04:17:25 PM »

I think we go as far as tagging Simms....

You mean use the Franchise tag on him?

Let me make this clear: That WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Ever.

Ever.

Has this front office done anything to not suprise you.

Gruden needs an 2 part experienced QB
1 part NFL experience.
2 part Gruden offense experience.

He HAS to win next year Gradkowski wont be ready next year, Rattay/Mccown will never get a full season starter position under Gruden. Brad is in Minnesota, Brian is in Chicago, Gannon is in the booth. Jon wont mortgage his future on the back of ANOTHER rookie.

So who does that leave?

Gruden knows what he has in Chris to buy Gruden a contract extension.

Let me make THIS clear: Simms will be in Pewter/Red in 2007...and we may have to pay  top dollar for him.

You have to realize this front office will do what is BEST for THEMSELVES.  Chris is a 4 year QB all under Gruden, they have spent a lot of time with this kid, he wont let him go





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« #42 : December 14, 2006, 04:19:42 PM »

Simms wasn't even impressive last year.  I dont understand the love affair.  You know how A.J. Feeley led the Eagles to the playoffs in 2002....well he did it with a 3 headed monster attack rushing game and a great defense.  The same with Simms as far as running game and defense.

Let's see he took over in the Miami Game.  Was 6 for 10 for 69 yards.  Pittman had a 57 yard run and Will Allen had a 33 yard fumble return.  Good Running game.CHECK.  Good defense.CHECK

We then had a bye week.  Came at perfect time so Simms could prepare and face the lowly 49ers.  Well Simms threw a late 4th quarter touchdown but also threw 2 picks and lost a fumble.  We had a good defense that game just giving up 5 field goals but our running game was similar to this years.  Hmm..imagine that Simms can't do anything without a running game.

The next week Simms had a similar performance with 1 touchdown along with 2 interceptions and a fumble.  The running game was once again similar to this years.  Carolina just torched us...but I guess turning the ball over 3 times from your QB can help that.

Simms finally got off the snide with a break out game against the Redskins...or at least we hoped.  He tossed 3 touchdowns and didn't turn the ball over. I remember Simeon Rice having a monster game, but the running game was once again terrible.  The defense gave up 35 points, but they forced 3 turnovers creating short fields.  I will give Simms the credit he deserves for this game.  The best game of his career and probably best game he will ever play.

The next game we played the Falcons in which we won 30-27.  Simms went 11/19 for 118 yards and an interception.  I'll tell ya what...that is LIGHTING THINGS UP fo sho'.....Cadillac finally got back in his grove and the defense forced 2 turnovers, one of which was for a TD forcing a fumble on the ALMIGHTY Matt Shaub in the endzone.  The other one of which was at the end of the game to set up the game winning field goal.

The next game was against the Bears in which Simms went 19/30 for 202 yards with no picks or TDs.  HE DID HOWEVER fumble the ball away.  The defense was good as was the running game.  I know Matt Bryant missed a field goal as well which was a heart breaker.

The next game is where we beat the 3-9 Saints in a snoozing match 10-3.  Simms had just 123 yards passing with 1 TD.  Clearly this game was more of the running game and defense

The next game we managed to hand a loss to the Panthers in a 20-10 defeating.  The defense was on its game and gave up a last minute TD to make the game respectable.  Cadillac had over 100 yards and 2 TDs.  Simms had 138 yards with no TDs or picks.  Clearly great D and running game.

the next game we got shot out against New England.  Defense and running game was similar to this year.....Simms had 155 yards with a fumble.

The next game was the magical OT win against the Falcons.  Simms had a decent game throwing for 285 yards with 2 tds and 2 interceptions.  Keep in mind this thing went almost a full 5 quarters so let's not over-react with the 285 yards.  One of his TD was set up by a defensive turnover in which the Bucs had to go only 29 yards.

the next game Simms had another good game throwing for only 143 yards...but also 2 TDs with no turnovers....


So he started 10 games...and basically the only one in which he carried the team was the Redskins.  Most of the other ones were products of a good running game and great defense.  In his 3 best games(Was/ATL OT/SAINTS wk17), he threw for 7 TDs and 2 picks.  In the remaining 7 games he managed to throw just 3 TDs.


Don't let last year confuse you.  If Gradkowski had that #1 D and great running game...who's to say he wouldn't have had a better year then SIMMS statistically.  After all, Grads has 9 TDs to 9 INTs with an average D and a horrid running attack.  I remember Simms not handling the crappy team so well with 1 td to 7 picks.


WE NEED A QB FOLKS....right now Simms is a question mark and I rather another team take a risk on him.  We need to bite the bullet and draft a QB or go out and get a VET QB.  Grads might still have a future with this team, but I dont want either 2 starting next year...



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« #43 : December 14, 2006, 04:25:23 PM »

The 49ers game was the 1st start of the season for him what do you expect?

DO YOU THINK GRUDEN WANTS TO GET A NEW QB TO START IN THIS OFFENSE WITH HIS REAR ON THE HOT SEAT?

That would be suicide

He wins with Chris Simms and yes our running game was explosive BUT it was because the defense had to respect the long ball. This season they dont respect Grads so they play 9 in the box.

Id love to see 9 in the box with #2 back there

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« #44 : December 14, 2006, 04:29:52 PM »

So the 49ers game..Did you manage to look at the other games?  Heck he had a TD in the Niners game...That was like what...his 4th best game that year?


Gruden isn't on the hot seat.  Yea the team is terrible, but what's suicide is going in with SIMMs or GRADs as starter.  I am 50% sure the Bucs will probably draft a QB and about another 50% sure that they will go out and get a FA.

First of all, do you even think Simms would want to return?  He will go to some team like Detriot or Cleveland.  I hope he doesnt want to return because we are looking at another year of dissapointment if we have Simms or Grads starting next year.

hey utspartan..you wouldn't happen to be named Phil Simms, Chris Simms, or Simms "Momma Dukes"; would ya?  Because I don't even think they can make a good enough arguement to say their son deserves to start.....
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