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Badabing

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#30 : June 03, 2008, 09:31:14 PM

well in the 02 Super Bowl win over the Raiders, gunsmen Dwight Smith picked off 2 passes in which he returned for Touchdowns.  Runningback Michael Pittman ran over the opposing defense like it was his wife, and Jon Gruden, the DUI coach, pretty much knew the Raiders every move.

I would say we'd be in trouble if we didn't have those guys for that game.

Also you look at last year.  S Tanard Jackson had bad labels on him, I think he smoked pot which by some on this board would warrant the death penalty.  He turned out to be a bright spot.  LB Cato June got a DUI as did TE Jerramy Stevens.  Both were key players.  You have to take Talent into account first.  If you can get a talented player with good character you do it, but if you can get a steal or good deal for a less charitable guy, you cant pass that up either.


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#31 : June 03, 2008, 09:34:52 PM

nice take badabing... and good thread also... it is a legit question that everyone should have an opinion on.

if your starting a team.. go with character... set the tone in the club house with character.. and then make it as good place to come for not good character but talented guys to become good character.

like having DB and ronde here.. and brining in guys that have bad raps liek you have mentioned... the good guy image is alreayd here.. now we are pluggin in bad guys that become good.  its amazing.


Badabing

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#32 : June 03, 2008, 09:39:26 PM

SarasotaBuc Fan....i like that take.

I think its harder to judge young players, however.  For instance, guys like Mike Alstott, John Lynch, Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, Warrick Dunn, etc. were all great character guys, but I think its harder to predict how a young player will turn out.  We certainly hit that formula right on the head in the 90s.

Obviously, I'd love to have a bunch of  good character guys with probowl talent....but If i had to choose one, I'd stomach the bad guys who are more talented than the good guys.

I mean everyone may be laughing at the Cowboys now with Owens, Tank, and Pacman; but if the Cowboys go on to make it to the Super Bowl then I'd say Jerry Jones is a smart man.  The Bengals are a team that just gets bad character guys that are bad lol.  Thats a total different story, but I think the Cowboys are doing good things...

ryan24

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#33 : June 03, 2008, 09:41:19 PM

Personally, I have no concern with a player's past.....all i care about is that he shows up on Sunday and balls. If he's doing things that prevent that from happening, then I have a problem.

We aren't talkin about someone that i'd hang out with or who I'd be lookin for to date my daughter.

Pretty much my take on it.

I can understand some reservation on Stevens but the footstompin' mad act is bewildering to me.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

rpc1978

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#34 : June 03, 2008, 09:45:31 PM

at the end of the day, when you sign a player you aren't looking back at what he did in the past (character and football production) as much as you are looking forward at the player's potential upside on the field and his propensity for trouble off the field.  Stevens has the potential to be quite productive in our system and beside DUIs he hasn't been in serious trouble since college, which was a decade ago so there isnt a reason to think he is going to do so going forward.  

This will all blow over.  That was an uproar about Pittman once upon a time and yet now the general consensus on the guy is positive.

keeponbucn

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#35 : June 03, 2008, 09:57:47 PM

Only one that comes to mind if Pittman from '02. There have been several over his tenure though, some panned out, some didn't. He likes character but he also fire.

DTG, you're correct on that note, but for the most part, Dungy sought high character



Ok, you said Gruden won the SB with shady players then when prompted to clearify you gave this? Great work, well done.

r*d*s

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#36 : June 03, 2008, 10:10:12 PM

at the end of the day, when you sign a player you aren't looking back at what he did in the past (character and football production) as much as you are looking forward at the player's potential upside on the field and his propensity for trouble off the field.  Stevens has the potential to be quite productive in our system and beside DUIs he hasn't been in serious trouble since college, which was a decade ago so there isnt a reason to think he is going to do so going forward. 

This will all blow over.  That was an uproar about Pittman once upon a time and yet now the general consensus on the guy is positive.
Pittman turned his life around with the help of counselling and the church. He is still married to his wife and has been in no trouble since.

Simms2Clayton05

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#37 : June 03, 2008, 10:10:17 PM

During the heat of the battle it is prolly talent. Also I mean it is not like we get to know these guys so character is somewhat irrelevant to me. Now for the team chemistry and all that its def better to have character. However in the NFL you cant win with just character or just talent you need a good blend of the two. There are teams that lose when they have all the talent in the world. Character sets it in line. On the other side of that if you had a team full of just character guys then you would be a nice group of guys but have no talent to compete with the best. Its split for me.

dbucfan

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#38 : June 03, 2008, 10:33:13 PM

I rabble rouse with more thought that you can ever do "dbucfan", yes it did happen 10 years ago, but tell that to the young lady and her family. Like I have posted before I know that class-less of a persone Stevens as was in school when this situation happen with that girl and everyon was out-rated that nothing was done.

By the way it is never too late of face justice dude, what you do here in this world you have to answer for, one way or another. Don't defend or post anything if you don't really know what took place. You or anyone helse were not there when it happen. Clone !!

Unlike you I have not castigated anyone for an opinion. 

I have noted both my feeling on the matter and a fairly objective view of the story.

I have not told folks what to think, nor that their feelings toward the situation are valid or invalid.

About the only time I have offered comment is when someone goes off into an inane blustering bull**CENSORED** rant.  And I have not noted your posts about four time.

Just for the record - the man has not been tried - because there was no case presented by the District Attorney's office.  I have not once indicated to anyone that he is innocent.  I have noted the fact he has not been found guilty, as I am sure they taught you when your were in school that is important.

You have mistaken me repeatedly for one that is defending Stevens.  Perhaps if you looked around this board for just a few minutes you will note that there are alot of folks who are not comfortable with him being here.  At the same time those folks do realize this country's legal system is what it is.  The best in the world - and that a person is innocent until proven guilty.

If the man were proven guilty there would be no question, my su**CENSORED**ions nor yours would have the impact of such a verdit.  On the other hand, he has not been tried.  So folks like you, and to an extent me, try to understand how a victim is not protected in the United States of America. 

So at the moment I guess I am defending what I know about the country, our legal system with all its' faults and offering that your ranting is nothing more than the hot air Duemig, Beckles, Karen, Bornabucc and others have brought to this site.  I mentioned to you that you had offered your thoughts and maybe it was time to move to another topic - bc you offer the same short sighted dim witted ill concieved thoughts in High School sentence structure. 

You should have moved on - you are making an ass out of yourself.  Maybe now?

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

SarasotaBuc Fan

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#39 : June 03, 2008, 10:34:11 PM

all I want to ask is, how many people go to a damn football game and not drink? hell, i bet the pope himself would go to a damn game and drink...yet all these callers today on 620 were saying how they were/are going to have their season tickets cancelled...don't blame Stevens DUI's and "ALLEGED" rape for season tickets rising and you not being able to afford it so you want to get out of a contract fee free, when you've known about this for over a year now!!!...you go to ball games and drink yourself, but it's ok because YOU didn't get caught...

I could go on about this "alleged" rape as well, which I highly doubt happened but I won't even bother wasting my time on this "Get Rich Quick" nonsense...simply put, she was probably a "virgin" in her daddy's eyes and lied about being raped because Stevens wanted nothing more to do with her...he probably said "but baby I love you, let me hit it from the back" or something like that. She says, "only if you promise you love me" or something like that. Stevens replies, "girl you know it's true, ga ga ga girl...oooh oooh oooh I love you"...blah blah blah
She was given the date rape drug you freaking moron. And WITNESSES said he was man handling her and she was non-responsive. Want someone to say that about your daughter one day when she says she was raped? DNA all over her. And he BRAGGED to his frat boys and his own roomie turned him in. Characacter 1st. Talent is fine unless it's in a vicious thug! You "BULLIE" are a disgusting waste of skin.

the date rape drug was alleged.. which that whole article is alleged.

the date rape drug was not found in here.. she did not test positive.


r*d*s

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#40 : June 03, 2008, 10:41:43 PM

An investigative report is not "alleged" unless you don't like what was said. WITNESSES said she was unresponsive--did you miss that? Have you read all 15 pages? And RPC you need FANS to get a gig like Ian and Ron have. You think they hold a gun to Clear Channel to get their jobs? Jealous little man. And I use the term loosly.

cyberdude557

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#41 : June 03, 2008, 10:49:16 PM

The problem with Ron and Ian as well as Duemig is that they've lost credibility. They've cried wolf far too many times and their biases are well known. They all hate Gruden and the Front Office. And they will use anything they can get their hands on as ammunition.

They are after ratings....thats all. They love to stir up the controversy.

SarasotaBuc Fan

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#42 : June 03, 2008, 10:49:57 PM

An investigative report is not "alleged" unless you don't like what was said. WITNESSES said she was unresponsive--did you miss that? Have you read all 15 pages? And RPC you need FANS to get a gig like Ian and Ron have. You think they hold a gun to Clear Channel to get their jobs? Jealous little man. And I use the term loosly.

cmon man dont get so heated.

we will agree to disagree.  i thought that story was biased. i can easily do an investigative report and skew it one way or the other.. not adding all the facts is not against the law... only lying is against the law.

as someone else has stated... there is 3 sides to a story...

Her Story , His Story , The Truth

And i think BA and the owners would not sign this guy if they didnt believe his story he told them.  in which the truth is somewhere in between hers and his story...  you cant go on ranting if you dont have all the facts...


r*d*s

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#43 : June 04, 2008, 02:53:51 AM

Have you read all 15 pages? He obviously lied--if asked. Here's the thing--the Bucs didn't know about this the 1st time they signed him..it hadn't been released. Then afterwards they sign him again. Even after 2 or 3 DUIS? I don't think he deserves to be in the NFL at all. He's a very bad dude.

1sparkybuc

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#44 : June 04, 2008, 05:51:28 AM

Each case is different. Michael Vick is an example of a player I would never want to see as a Buccaneer. Torturing helpless animals for the enjoyment is just sick.
Stevens' case is much more complex because school and government officials conspired to cover it up, and someone (other than Stevens) paid the girl $300,000.00 to fade away. I believe it is reasonable to assume that she was not the one who complained to the news media and caused the issue to be brought to light. I would guess that she has invested the money wisely and moved on with her life. It should also be noted that IF Stevens did as he was accused, he has avoided making the same mistake again. He is now engaged to be married. I believe the women of the state of Florida can rest assured that he poses no threat to them. The new league policy fines the team if a player violates the behavior standards.

The girl has moved on. Stevens should be allowed to do the same. If he's innocent, it's the fair thing to do. If he's guilty, he's certainly not alone and why should he be the only one punished. Let him rehab in peace. He is trying to make his life count for something and the Bucs are confident that he can. There has to be a statute of limitations for the stupidity of our youth. Let it go people. If he really is a bad apple, he will blow this opportunity. If he has truly changed, it's a win win situation for everybody. I'm hoping he is smarter than Boston and Russell and follows the example set here by Michael Pittman.
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