Terrible Economic Times

[mjs020294]

Plus you will see more tourists on the long haul flights at this time of year.  The Brits and other Europeans take two week vacations in the summer and the far east is very popular.

[olafberserker]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/10/news/economy/next_financial_woe/index.htm?cnn=yes

[olafberserker]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/09/news/economy/job_trend_index/index.htm

[Morgan]

must be people living beyond their means - maxing out their credit

[ufojoe]

Consumers are still buying at Circuit City, Best Buy, Walmart in full force. There's no signs that Americans are hurting.

LOL......I think you are leaving in the same out of touch dreamworld Java exists in.  Maybe the fact you are in the military in Europe kind of detaches you from the reality of what is going on in America right now.

Walmart is doing OK because a lot of people are shopping for value these days.   Most retailers are reporting reduced spending and everyone you speak to is hurting right now.  

Hurting? But the Dow went up $9.44 today! I have a chart I can post if you want to see it.

http://www.stockhouse.com/News/USReleasesDetail.aspx?n=6932580

Americans Feel the Pinch: Spending Behaviors Change as Consumer Prices Continue to Rise

PRINCIPAL FINANCIAL GRP
6/10/2008
Americans Look to Pay Off Debts and Save -- Not Spend -- Their
Economic Stimulus Checks

DES MOINES, Iowa, Jun 10, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) --

As Americans continue to feel the pinch from rising consumer prices, more are pinching pennies when it comes to spending on everyday items, according to the latest Principal Financial Well-Being Index. In the past two months, more than half of workers (56 percent) and retirees (55 percent) say they have cut back on spending due to challenging economic conditions, a dramatic increase from just fourth-quarter 2007 (38 percent and 32 percent respectively).

The index, which surveys both American workers at growing businesses with 10 to 1,000 employees and retired Americans, is released each quarter by the Principal Financial Group(R) and conducted by Harris Interactive(R).

* * * * * * * * * *

I received my $1200 check yesterday and it's going right in the bank.

[olafberserker]

must be people living beyond their means - maxing out their credit

Yeah the price of gas doubling in the past couple of years has nothing to do with it.

[cyberdude557]

must be people living beyond their means - maxing out their credit

Depends who you are talking about...
If you make 30k and you max out your credit and can barely make the minimum payments....that's a problem.

But a student in college is going to have maxed out credit. Average college student is over 25k in debt after 4 years. Most of that debt is college tuition. And it is something kids are going to have to think about now. Going to college means you are going to be mortgaging your future.
And to make it worse for college students..the jobs usually available to those students are now being soaked up by older people that have been layed-off.

So we are definitely heading towards some serious economic stresses in this country...

[ufojoe]

2009 will greet us with roses and candy. 2009 will great us as liberators.

All is fine.

[cyberdude557]

Real estate is becoming a mess... Most people now owe more money on their homes than what their property is worth. This is going to be a very serious problem.

[olafberserker]

Real estate is becoming a mess... Most people now owe more money on their homes than what their property is worth. This is going to be a very serious problem.

Most people that bought from 2005 to later 2007 or refinanced to the max during that time.

[ufojoe]

Is it time again for me to bump my "Economic 911?" thread?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/jun/09/housingmarket.houseprices

Excerpt:

Traders predict house prices will fall by 50% in four years
Phillip Inman
The Guardian, Monday June 9 2008

The slide in house prices will continue for at least three years and crush the value of a home by almost 50% in real terms, according to a key index of property price futures. Indications from futures trading on long term property prices shows that the average UK home will recover its current value only in 2017.

By the end of this year prices will be down by 10% and by a further 10.5% in 2009, according to the index. Prices will keep dropping through 2010 and cut values by 23.5% when they hit rock bottom in 2011. House prices will then begin a slow climb back to current market values over a period of about six years.

If an average retail price inflation rate of 4% is included in the calculation and in addition the 8% drop in prices over the last eight months already registered by the Halifax index, the fall in values over almost four years will reach 47.5% in real terms.

The Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman, Lord Oakeshott, said the figures revealed that property investors had little confidence in the market and were predicting steep and prolonged falls in prices.

"This government says this housing depression will be different from the early 1990s. Yes, that's right. It will be worse."

[cyberdude557]

Real estate is becoming a mess... Most people now owe more money on their homes than what their property is worth. This is going to be a very serious problem.

Most people that bought from 2005 to later 2007 or refinanced to the max during that time.

And what's your point? If those mortgages go under, it still effects everyone. Banks start suffering so it becomes harder for even people with good credit to get a loan. And it kills property values.

If your neighbor goes bankrupt and sells his house 25% below it's worth because he can no longer pay his mortgage...your house then loses value and you lose money even though you had nothing to do with the situation. Imagine if 1/3rd the people on your street do this. Say goodbye to your equity. You will lose thousands of dollars.

[olafberserker]

Real estate is becoming a mess... Most people now owe more money on their homes than what their property is worth. This is going to be a very serious problem.

Most people that bought from 2005 to later 2007 or refinanced to the max during that time.

And what's your point? If those mortgages go under, it still effects everyone. Banks start suffering so it becomes harder for even people with good credit to get a loan. And it kills property values.

If your neighbor goes bankrupt and sells his house 25% below it's worth because he can no longer pay his mortgage...your house then loses value and you lose money even though you had nothing to do with the situation. Imagine if 1/3rd the people on your street do this. Say goodbye to your equity. You will lose thousands of dollars.

I'm well aware of how it works.   You lose money on paper if you've owned your home longer that 4 or 5 years and not refinanced to the max over the past few years, then your house should be worth more than you paid.  If you bought the home to live in it, then you won't really be affected unless you're forced to sell for some reason (job relocation, out grow it,etc.).  That's the way it's been historically.  Not this buy a house make ridiculous equity in a year or so and sell to buy another.  That money on paper was inflated by a runaway system.

[cyberdude557]

And I think it is a bit ignorant to say that the economy is going south simply because "people are living beyond their means."

Maxing out credit has been going on for many, many, many years. Even during good economic times that happends. That has nothing to do with the current problems.

The current problems are due to a wide range of problems in many different sectors. Jobs are going overseas. Banks have made stupid loan decisions. The value of the dollar is crashing. Food, gas, and living expenses are going up while salaries are actually starting to fall. And now the Fed Chairman just told congress a week ago that we may be entering a period of inflation.

These problems had nothing to do with people maxing out a $10,000 Visa card.

These problems had nothing to do with people maxing out a $10,000 Visa card.

A large part of the bigger overall problem is that people are being granted more and more credit on less and less credentials. Ten grand is nothing, most people are a lot further in debt than that, and many of them should never have been offered that credit to begin with.