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krazybuc

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#15 : June 13, 2008, 10:39:44 AM

what about aliens?

are intelligent people more likely to believe in aliens?

JavaBuc

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#16 : June 13, 2008, 10:41:24 AM

I find that pretty much all uneducated people believe in both ghosts and aliens as well.   So I'm guessing the answer to your question is NO.

TURBO

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#17 : June 13, 2008, 10:46:20 AM

lock it down...


hoodsbucs

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#18 : June 13, 2008, 10:47:17 AM

True wisdom comes from the Lord.


Ugh, no it doesn't.

Amen!  I mean, righton!!

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#19 : June 13, 2008, 10:50:43 AM

We have seen this thread before.
I agree wholeheartedly that intelligent people are less likely to believe in God.  How we define intelligence should be noted.  True wisdom comes from the Lord.  Man can only be self taught so much.  It makes perfect sense to believe that if a person becomes more knowledgable of the world, the less likely he will believe in it's creator. 
I had a conversation with an atheist the other day.  She stated that she did not need to believe in the Bible to have morals such as not lying, cheating, killing, etc.
I then asked her where did she think we humans conceived the idea of morals to begin with?  Did we just through trial and error realize things were either right or wrong?  Or did the originate from law, commandments from God?  Of course she stated that we just realized we were doing wrong. 
I believe it would be fascinating to go and communicate with the tribe that was discovered a couple of weeks ago that has had no contact with man.  Let's see what their morals are?  If they kill a child at 2 years old to provide a sacrifice to the god of testosterone so that male tribesman can please themselves more, is this right or wrong?  To them, it's right since they do not know law.  And this will never end until law is introduced to them. 
IMO, the more "intelligent" we become, the more we become less like God created us to be, and more like these tribesman.  We revert back to our selfish ways, wanting to be dominant.  Someone asked me why I didn't go to seminary, and my asnwer is simple.  I will rely on the Holy Spirit to be my teacher, rather than man who not only in the secular world, but in the religious world, attempts to teach above the Lord.   


Were you born with the knowledge of the lord, or did you learn this through education/religious studies?

We are not born with any knowledge or connection to God, so its through your family, your peers, and they way you are raised that makes you believe or not believe in a specific religion.

John Galt?

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#20 : June 13, 2008, 10:53:10 AM

Horrible study in that in restricts itself to a very narrow group (Academics) and ignores all other possible factors.

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A survey of Royal Society fellows found that only 3.3 per cent believed in God - at a time when 68.5 per cent of the general UK population described themselves as believers.

A separate poll in the 90s found only seven per cent of members of the American National Academy of Sciences believed in God.

Royal Society Fellows may have a great deal of other factors that influence their belief structure. Escobar pointed out Ego's and I would suspect that being admitted to a very exclusive and prestigeous group may cause an increase in self-confidence and "ego".  Also, maybe membership to this group tends to favor those whose personality is more likely to be cynical about such things, therefore those more likely to believe in God and also be more intelligent are excluded.

Academics also tend to be less self-driven and ambitious than those equally intelligent persons that go into the private sector.

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"Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ.

This is the same type of false conclusion as "Why did people in the 1950's Hiroshima have a higher incidence of cancer than people living in Tuscany? I believe it is simpy a matter of rice in their diets"  Ignoring the cloistured lifestyle, the different personality types, the ordered nature of their jobs, and dozens of other factors is like ignoring A-bomb radiation.  You just can't do it and be credible.

Show me a study of people with a higher tested IQs equally distributed across all jobs, enviroments, and lifestyles, then I can make a conclusion.

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Professor Lynn said most primary school children believed in God, but as they entered adolescence - and their intelligence increased - many started to have doubts.

Intelligence does not increase at adolescenes, in fact some studies suggest that it may start decreasing as one ages.  Knowledge increases, not intelligence.  In fact intelligence may be highest when a child is between 2 and 6.  Children that age can easily learn 2 or more languages very quickly, far quicker than adults.  In any case I would have expected a Professor to know the definition of intelligence, since he is doing a study on it.



ufojoe

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#21 : June 13, 2008, 10:55:59 AM

what about aliens?

are intelligent people more likely to believe in aliens?

I find that pretty much all uneducated people believe in both ghosts and aliens as well.   So I'm guessing the answer to your question is NO.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10950526

Believe it or not, higher education is linked to a greater tendency to believe in ghosts and other paranormal phenomena, according to a new study.

Contrary to researchers' expectations, a poll of 439 college students found seniors and grad students were more likely than freshmen to believe in haunted houses, psychics, telepathy, channeling and a host of other questionable ideas.

The results are detailed in the January-February issue of the Skeptical Inquirer magazine.


Comparing two surveys

The survey was modeled after a nationwide Gallup Poll in 2001 that found younger Americans far more likely to believe in the paranormal than older respondents.

The new study was done by Bryan Farha at Oklahoma City University and Gary Steward Jr. of the University of Central Oklahoma.

In general college students checked the "Believe" box less than the general population surveyed by Gallup. But the lack of "Don't Believe" responses among college students was lower for six of the 13 categories: psychic or spiritual healing, haunted houses, demonic possession, ghosts, clairvoyance and witches. That means a higher percentage of college students put themselves in the "Not Sure" column on these topics. (Click here for the detailed results.)

Less skeptical

More significantly, the new survey reveals college is not necessarily a path to skepticism in these realms.

While 23 percent of college freshmen expressed a general belief in paranormal concepts - from astrology to communicating with the dead - 31 percent of seniors did so, and the figure jumped to 34 percent among graduate students.

"As people attain higher college-education levels, the likelihood of believing in paranormal dimensions increases," Farha and Steward write.

The news media are likely responsible for some people's beliefs in alien abductions and other paranormal concepts, the scientists write, based on their survey of existing studies. And some people tend to confirm selectively whatever ideas might be in their heads. Even smart people might believe in something offbeat because, in part, they're good at defending whatever they believe.


Biggs3535

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#22 : June 13, 2008, 11:04:32 AM

We are not born with any knowledge or connection to God.

How do you know that?


ufojoe

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#23 : June 13, 2008, 11:08:45 AM

Sorry this is so sloppy.

The Poll Results

How the college students responded in the new poll on a percentage basis (in bold) compared to the 2001 Gallup Poll (parenthesis). Figures are rounded.

 
Paranormal concept   
                                                                                                                      Believe    Not Sure   Don't Believe
Psychic or spiritual healing or the power of the human mind to heal the body   Â    56 (54)   26 (19)   18 (26)
ESP or extrasensory perception   Â                                                                        28 (50)   39 (20)   33 (27)
That houses can be haunted                                                                           40 (42)   25 (16)   34 (41)
That people on this Earth are sometimes possessed by the devil                           40 (41)   28 (16)   31 (41)
Ghosts or that spirits of dead people cancome back in certain places & situations 39 (38)   27 (17)   34 (44)
Telepathy, or communication between minds with/o using traditional 5 senses   24 (36)   34 (26)   42 (35)
That extraterrestrial beings have visited earth at some time in the past           17 (33)   34 (27)   48 (38)
Clairvoyance, or the power of the mind to know the past and predict the future  24 (32)   33 (23)   42 (45)
That people can hear from or communicate mentally w/someone who has died   16 (28)   29 (26)   54 (46)
Astrology, or that the position of the stars and planets can affect people's lives   17 (28)   26 (18)   57 (52)
Witches                                                                                                           26 (26)   19 (15)   55 (59)
Reincarnation, that is, the rebirth of the soul in a new body after death           14 (25)   28 (20)   57 (54)
Channeling, or allowing a "spirit being" to temporarily assume control of a human body during a trance 10 (15)   29 (21)   61 (62)


ufojoe

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#24 : June 13, 2008, 11:12:14 AM

It stands to reason that a person that dedicates themselves to the building up of their own intellect will think that they're own intellect is God.  That is, in fact, what is happening with these people.  They believe that they're mind and they're ability to reason is the ultimate authority in the world, because thats all that they rely on in life.  That's just arrogance. 

I agree that this is the case in many instances with some scientists. The arrogance is off the charts.
And they don't want to give up any control of their life.


Balls Out

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#25 : June 13, 2008, 11:12:22 AM

mtnbucman that is the perfect scripture for this topic. In short, just because people with a higher IQ are less likely to believe in God doesn't mean that they're right.

It stands to reason that a person that dedicates themselves to the building up of their own intellect will think that they're own intellect is God. That is, in fact, what is happening with these people. They believe that they're mind and they're ability to reason is the ultimate authority in the world, because thats all that they rely on in life. That's just arrogance.

Way off....it's called critical thinking, when the bible says things like the earth is only a couple thousand years old, why should I believe anything that book has to say? The bible was written by man to control man, plain and simple.

"Some birds can only have a back archer if you flick the starter button - spocking the G spot doesn't work on all of them"

hoodsbucs

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#26 : June 13, 2008, 11:15:34 AM

We are not born with any knowledge or connection to God.

How do you know that?

We are taught to walk, talk, behave, and act through our early years are we not?  Are we born with the ability to add and subtract?  What about the knowledge of Science or American History?  Like these, the belief in God is a teaching represented/taught by its Church or people, or in the first two examples, schooling.

ufojoe

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#27 : June 13, 2008, 11:18:52 AM

mtnbucman that is the perfect scripture for this topic. In short, just because people with a higher IQ are less likely to believe in God doesn't mean that they're right.

It stands to reason that a person that dedicates themselves to the building up of their own intellect will think that they're own intellect is God. That is, in fact, what is happening with these people. They believe that they're mind and they're ability to reason is the ultimate authority in the world, because thats all that they rely on in life. That's just arrogance.

Way off....it's called critical thinking, when the bible says things like the earth is only a couple thousand years old, why should I believe anything that book has to say? The bible was written by man to control man, plain and simple.

He's not way off.

You're mixing belief in God with a belief in a literal Bible or Creationism. Two completely different
things. This article is dealing with belief in God and not if the Earth is 6000 years old as Creationists
believe.

Scientists can use all of the critical thinking they want. IMO, if they use true critical thinking and
get their egos out of the way, they would see evidence for some sort of an intelligent designer.

John Galt?

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#28 : June 13, 2008, 11:22:35 AM

Oh, this one is easy guys.

1 Corinthians 1:26-31 (English Standard Version)
 
 "For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.""



Here is an example of my biggest complaint against "Christians", not Christianity, but the people that espouse it.  

Rather than reading the article and thinking about what it is claiming and how it is being claimed, looking at the merits or lack there of, or considering the assumptions made, you instead just go straight to the trusty Bible for quotes and ignore the 600 lb gorilla in the room.

Here is a study that makes ridiculous conclusions based on absurd assumptions and ignores boatloads of alternate factors, and rather than address that let's just quote some scripture.  

Do you ever wonder why so many criticize "Christians"?  It is not always because of their belief, but because of their constant use of the bible as a crutch in every discussion.  It seems like the first response is always "what verse can I use" rather than thinking and responding with the mind God gave you.

If you believe in God, then you should believe that God gave you a brain and a mind BEFORE he gave you the Bible and he wants you to use them IN THAT ORDER.



PS: This is a generic rant and not aimed specifically at MTN, he was just the first to quote scripture.




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#29 : June 13, 2008, 11:26:14 AM

Quote
Dr David Hardman, principal lecturer in learning development at London Metropolitan University, said: "It is very difficult to conduct true experiments that would explicate a causal relationship between IQ and religious belief. Nonetheless, there is evidence from other domains that higher levels of intelligence are associated with a greater ability - or perhaps willingness - to question and overturn strongly felt institutions."

That statement should be what is gleaned from the article.

You can't really find a relationship between the two, but the more educated folks are subject to many other theories; so they question more.  That is a good thing.  Find out all the information you can and make your decision.  I find many people are turned off by religion because of experiences with people who call themselves Christians, but don't truly act like a Christian.

I also think another factor here is the human element of always wanting to be in control and not wanting to submit to a higher authority.  Just a personal hypothesis of mine...

So true.

I like your hypothesis Biggs and it is in agreement with what the Bible states.
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