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#30 : June 13, 2008, 11:26:25 AM

mtnbucman that is the perfect scripture for this topic. In short, just because people with a higher IQ are less likely to believe in God doesn't mean that they're right.

It stands to reason that a person that dedicates themselves to the building up of their own intellect will think that they're own intellect is God. That is, in fact, what is happening with these people. They believe that they're mind and they're ability to reason is the ultimate authority in the world, because thats all that they rely on in life. That's just arrogance.

Way off....it's called critical thinking, when the bible says things like the earth is only a couple thousand years old, why should I believe anything that book has to say? The bible was written by man to control man, plain and simple.

He's not way off.

You're mixing belief in God with a belief in a literal Bible or Creationism. Two completely different
things. This article is dealing with belief in God and not if the Earth is 6000 years old as Creationists
believe.

Scientists can use all of the critical thinking they want. IMO, if they use true critical thinking and
get their egos out of the way, they would see evidence for some sort of an intelligent designer.

Your right, I was mixing the 2, I tend to associate organized religion with the mention of god because that's who we're usually hearing it from.

It is arrogant to state unequivocally that god doesn't exist, because there is just way too much we don't know or understand. I do know that organized religion is full of it though...

"Some birds can only have a back archer if you flick the starter button - spocking the G spot doesn't work on all of them"

Biggs3535

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#31 : June 13, 2008, 11:27:15 AM

We are taught to walk, talk, behave, and act through our early years are we not?  Are we born with the ability to add and subtract?  What about the knowledge of Science or American History?

How did the first person learn to walk, talk, behave, do math, science, and learn history?  We were born with those abilities.


Like these, the belief in God is a teaching represented/taught by its Church or people, or in the first two examples, schooling.

Not all religious people find their faith through churches and schools.  Just sayin'...


cyberdude557

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#32 : June 13, 2008, 11:36:59 AM

Actually I have an issue with the terminology used in this study. They are making a lot of casual correlations. They are making an assumption that anyone with a PhD is "intelligent" and anyone who doesnt have one isnt intelligent. That's not exactly true. There are plenty of intelligent people out there without a PhD. In fact the people out there that have become highly successful without much college education is probably more intelligent than people with a PhD. I think it is more linked to education than intelligence. The more educated you are the more likely you are to question what is told to you by a pastor or by the Bible. Colleges and universities try to enshrine the scientific method and promote the idea that nothing is black and white. That things need to be tested under control conditions for something to be proven true.

Atheism isnt growing in colleges. The studies do not show a growth of atheism. What is growing is agnosticism. These are people who accept the possibility that god may exist while an atheist dismisses the idea completely. Most in academia that are religious tend to switch to agnosticism during their education. This may be because the more educated you become, particularly about history and science, the less likely you are to believe in the parts of the bible that discuss how the universe was created. The book of Genesis is frequently bashed in academic circles. You take a Biology class and it just turns that part of the bible into a fairy tale. But keep in mind that even Charles Darwin considered himself a Christian all the way up to his death. His belief was that the bible has it wrong. That the Earth wasnt created in 6 days. That instead, God had lead the process of evolution. So again....it's the Bible that is attacked...not God.

But lets keep things in perspective here. Religion also means something very different to different people. 93% of people believe in some form of higher power (whether that be God or something else). 85% believe in some form of an afterlife. But only about 40% are Christian and even less are Catholic. Very few people believe that the Bible was dictated by God...even most Christians do not believe the Bible is God's words. So the word "religion" and "God" mean very different things from one person to the next.

My point....the Bible is under attack....not God.



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#33 : June 13, 2008, 11:41:47 AM

mtnbucman that is the perfect scripture for this topic.  In short, just because people with a higher IQ are less likely to believe in God doesn't mean that they're right.

It stands to reason that a person that dedicates themselves to the building up of their own intellect will think that they're own intellect is God.  That is, in fact, what is happening with these people.  They believe that they're mind and they're ability to reason is the ultimate authority in the world, because thats all that they rely on in life.  That's just arrogance. 

Exactly BucNative.

Now on the other hand, in response in part to John Galt ?, we have a God given brain and need to reason on these precious truths found in the Bible. Meditate on them so as to know how to make application in our lives.

The point is that degrees and theology schools are not what lead one to the truth, actually it's quite the opposite and that is part of what Paul was pointing out. Jesus disciples where not educated like the scribes, Pharisees and Saducees were, but they had brains and were helped along by holy spirit.

An example of an observation that the religious leaders made about Jesus' disciples:

"Now when they saw the boldness and unfettered eloquence of Peter and John and perceived that they were unlearned and untrained in the schools [common men with no educational advantages], they marveled; and they recognized that they had been with Jesus." - Acts 4:13 (AMP)
 



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#34 : June 13, 2008, 11:43:48 AM

Also, this very discussion, this thread is a perfect example of man leaning on his own reasonings instead of God's.

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#35 : June 13, 2008, 11:45:20 AM

The most religious humans existed thousands of years before and yet we are finding evidence they may have been far more technologically advanced than we once believed.  Saying we as modern humans are arrogant and show at times huge egos is a mega understatement.

The dark ages was a set back for humanity not just from a technological standpoint but arguably even from a religious stand point.  From that point foward religion and science did not go hand in hand anymore like in the past and became rivals.

Ancient Greeks, Ancient Romans, Ancient Chinese, etc all the old civilizations embraced technology and religion together in a harmonic balance.

The irony is the foundation of academia is based on the works of the ancients who were deeply religious.


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#36 : June 13, 2008, 11:46:09 AM

There are lots of shortcomings with this study.

And even if every scientist didn't believe in God, it would mean nada since we can't really prove it
or disprove it with data. However, IMO, one can present evidence that there is some sort of intelligence
behind the creation of life on this planet.

Although, I think the movie "Expelled" was not well done, it is a decent watch when it comes to how
scientists look at the Intelligent Design theory. Talk about arrogant! It also shows what happens to
some scientists who dare to speak out in support of some sort of intelligent designer.

Short video on "The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch.




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#37 : June 13, 2008, 11:46:57 AM

Now on the other hand, in response in part to John Galt ?, we have a God given brain and need to reason on these precious truths found in the Bible. Meditate on them so as to know how to make application in our lives.

All Galt? was saying that you don't need to use a Bible to shred that "scientific study."  People who do not believe in the Bible will not put much thought to your argument when your main argument is from the Bible.



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#38 : June 13, 2008, 11:48:17 AM

Ancient Greeks, Ancient Romans, Ancient Chinese, etc all the old civilizations embraced technology and religion together in a harmonic balance.

The irony is the foundation of academia is based on the works of the ancients who were deeply religious.

I think they were more spiritual than religious.

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#39 : June 13, 2008, 11:49:53 AM

Spirituality is the root of religion and without it you don't have religion.

The core of Christianity is based on the spirituality of the trinity.




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#40 : June 13, 2008, 11:50:36 AM

ADW, man was created with a need to look to a higher power for guidance. In other words, our Creator didn't design us to live a happy successful life apart from His oversight, His rulership. Look around and see how well man has done at ruling himself.

This is the simple fact of the matter that folks just don't realize.



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#41 : June 13, 2008, 11:51:16 AM

Now on the other hand, in response in part to John Galt ?, we have a God given brain and need to reason on these precious truths found in the Bible. Meditate on them so as to know how to make application in our lives.

All Galt? was saying that you don't need to use a Bible to shred that "scientific study."  People who do not believe in the Bible will not put much thought to your argument when your main argument is from the Bible.



True.

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#42 : June 13, 2008, 11:52:51 AM

Also, this very discussion, this thread is a perfect example of man leaning on his own reasonings instead of God's.

Since I don't have the direct line to god that you seem to have, can you ask him how he expects me to function without using my own reasonings?

"Some birds can only have a back archer if you flick the starter button - spocking the G spot doesn't work on all of them"



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#43 : June 13, 2008, 11:58:07 AM

Also, this very discussion, this thread is a perfect example of man leaning on his own reasonings instead of God's.

Since I don't have the direct line to god that you seem to have, can you ask him how he expects me to function without using my own reasonings?

LOL, we all have access to the Bible and can pray. That is our 'direct line' to God.

Sorry, maybe I should have phrased that better. God does want us to use our reasoning abilities. Please let me rephrase:

............man leaning on his own wisdom instead of God's.

Sorry for the confusion.


ufojoe

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#44 : June 13, 2008, 11:58:18 AM

Spirituality is the root of religion and without it you don't have religion.

The core of Christianity is based on the spirituality of the trinity.


You can have spirituality without any sort of religion
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