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yuccaneers

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« : June 14, 2008, 12:43:08 AM »

With all the controversy surrounding the position from potential holdouts, to the mud slinging that has been going on this off-season, makes you wonder just how secure a few of these players are in there own abilities to hold on to the top spot or even compete for it.

Garcia has been whining about a long term deal at the age of 38, how long is long I ask? not to mention his lack of arm strength and inability to play a 16 game season, seems to me that he is trying to force the team into keeping him as the starter rather then earning it the old fashion way on the field.

Then you have a player in McCown that has shown some flash all be it brief, but with more experience has all the physical tools to be a starter and is also in the final year of his contract and hasnt mentioned anything publicly, not to mention they even brought in competition for him this off-season, but he still remains high on the chance to fight for the backup job and even the starting gig.

Seems to me that McCown  is letting his play on the field speak for him rather then his words.

After this off-season if McCown improves enough on the mental side I say the team should cut there losses and START, him to help guide the team in the future as they will be rewarded for it in the long run.

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

Rusty

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« #1 : June 14, 2008, 06:50:40 AM »

I want Luke tosucceed but his mistakes late in the game make me nervous. I hope some more experience cures this and he becomes a legitimate QB.

                \'Every day above ground is a good day\'

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« #2 : June 14, 2008, 09:28:39 AM »

What I do know is that if there ever was a movie about McCown, he'd be played by Barry Pepper.



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« #3 : June 14, 2008, 09:34:06 AM »

I agree Yuc, the only way we'll know wether or not McCown can be the QB of near future is if he plays. And I bet he'll be singing the praises of everyone involved if that opportunity was given to him. Funny how that works out isn't it?

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« #4 : June 14, 2008, 10:03:29 AM »

What I do know is that if there ever was a movie about McCown, he'd be played by Barry Pepper.




haha...eeeeeerieeee



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« #5 : June 14, 2008, 01:19:23 PM »

I'm pretty firmly in the McCown camp.  In almost every way I think he is by far the best QB here.  The only exception is the mistakes, but I believe those are due to his lack of experience more than anything else -- Young QBs make those errors and learn from them.  If he can't learn from them he's just another Grads.  But I think he will.

I'd like to see people making a different argument with the QBs.  Talking hypothetically, if Luke cut those mistakes down, does anyone think he would NOT be the best QB on the team?  My opinion is he would, and by far; I'm not sure how anyone could argue that but I'd like to hear it.  The second question is are his mistakes an innate flaw, or the standard travails of a young QB?  That really seems to be the million dollar question.  When I look at what he did wrong last year, it was pretty standard stuff for a guy with only a handful of starts; holding the ball a little too long, relying a bit too much on his mobility, not driving a couple of passes that he should have.  Early on I thought the kid was a walking turnover.  As things went on, I thought he corrected the general danger of that, and moved, in my mind, from what I feared was a Robo clone to a young guy making mistakes.  If I'm right about that (and about Jeff not holding up a full year), we need to start him now.  If I'm wrong, then he's just another bust. 

That's where I think the debate really focuses.  And FWIW, Luke would be a great character guy to have as the team's QB...




Badabing

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« #6 : June 14, 2008, 01:32:28 PM »

you guys are crazy.  McCown is by far the best QB we have?  Are you serious?


The dude played in 4 games, boasted a 1-3 record, had 4 less sacks then Garcia had ALL season and had the same amount of sack yards.  The dude turned the ball over at least once a game, handed the Saints 9 pts and the 49ers 14 pts....threw a game ending INT to the Panthers.  Entered the 49ers game with a touchdown lead, blew that.  Came in the Seahawks game for like 2 drives and ended up getting sacked twice.

Nah, you guys are right, I much rather have him in there over Jeff Garcia.

The dude is a younger version of Brian Griese and even that is giving the man a compliment.



2004
----Fourth-round draft pick Luke McCown was impressive in his first workouts with the Cleveland Browns.

McCown, if he progresses, will be groomed to be the QB-of-the-future in Cleveland in two seasons. He's a solid late pick in rookie dynasty drafts.
Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

-----Luke McCown finished 7-of-10 for 104 yards and 2 TDs tonight in a Browns win.

McCown has looked incredible in consecutive weeks. If things go according to plan, he's Cleveland's QB-of-the-future.

-------Luke McCown will sit this week if Kelly Holcomb is healthy.

If the game was Monday, Holcomb would not have been ready. But the Browns are tired of McCown's growing pains and want to compete.



------------Luke McCown completed 9-of-16 passes for 161 yards, one touchdown, and two interceptions in a week 16 loss.

We're past feeling sorry for this kid: the Browns may be doing permanent damage. Only one more week of punishment: it's unlikely Kelly Holcomb will play next week.


------Luke McCown currently sits atop the Cleveland quarterback depth chart.

Josh Harris is second. Don't worry, McCown has no chance at being the opening day starter next season. Romeo Crennel will look for a veteran, Kelly Holcomb being the early favorite. The Browns may also draft a QB, clouding McCown's future


Sounds like the Browns thought he was the future too.  However, a 49 completion percentage, and 4:7 TD/INT ratio changed their minds.  He didnt play in 05 or 06 and played in 5 games with us last year. 

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« #7 : June 14, 2008, 01:34:19 PM »

I'm pretty firmly in the McCown camp.  In almost every way I think he is by far the best QB here.  The only exception is the mistakes, but I believe those are due to his lack of experience more than anything else -- Young QBs make those errors and learn from them.  If he can't learn from them he's just another Grads.  But I think he will.

I'd like to see people making a different argument with the QBs.  Talking hypothetically, if Luke cut those mistakes down, does anyone think he would NOT be the best QB on the team?  My opinion is he would, and by far; I'm not sure how anyone could argue that but I'd like to hear it.  The second question is are his mistakes an innate flaw, or the standard travails of a young QB?  That really seems to be the million dollar question.  When I look at what he did wrong last year, it was pretty standard stuff for a guy with only a handful of starts; holding the ball a little too long, relying a bit too much on his mobility, not driving a couple of passes that he should have.  Early on I thought the kid was a walking turnover.  As things went on, I thought he corrected the general danger of that, and moved, in my mind, from what I feared was a Robo clone to a young guy making mistakes.  If I'm right about that (and about Jeff not holding up a full year), we need to start him now.  If I'm wrong, then he's just another bust. 

That's where I think the debate really focuses.  And FWIW, Luke would be a great character guy to have as the team's QB...


I agree with much of what you said.  I'm gonna hold off so far as to say he's the BEST QB on our roster, as it is clearly Garcia.  I just have that sinking feeling though that my thoughts on Luke are mainly just based out of sheer hope.  There were so many people on the Grads bandwagon, I'm trying to hold off until Luke has a substantial amount of starts under his belt.  His accuracy in the first quarter has been phenomenal, though.  I kept having visions of Rich Gannon completing like 25 passes in a row back in 2002 on MNF.  And we all know who Rich owes his success to.

yuccaneers

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« #8 : June 14, 2008, 01:42:14 PM »

personally I dont even think it should be in hypotheticals, He is clearly more athletically gifted and has a strong arm then any qb on the roster and might even push Simms as far as arm strength goes when it comes to the deep ball. Fits the ball in tighter spaces then anyone else. Seems to be able to play within a game plan while also keeping drives alive.

The drawback is his inexperience which the only way he can correct somethings in his game is getting live game action, would have to say I am in his camp as well, even though I was one of the ones want Josh Johnson to be drafted by the Bucs.

I think if the team goes with McCown this season they will be rewarded long term for doing so, Garcia hasnt made it through a full season in a while, and Griese is not a starter for this team nor do I feel he is a capable backup, way to many mental errors, he tends to throw without seeing the throw first which results in alot of pick sixes

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith



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« #9 : June 14, 2008, 01:48:38 PM »

CB, as I said, the caveat with him being the "best" QB is if he cuts down the mistakes.  Other than that, he runs the O well, is the most mobile, has the strongest arm, and is at least as accurate as the others.  Until he cuts down the mistakes he can't be considered the best, but if he does he wins the contest in a landslide...


Badabing

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« #10 : June 14, 2008, 01:50:06 PM »

You mean like the Bucs when they started Gradkowski in 2006 over Tim Rattay?  That was certainly a move meant more for the long-run....

Listen, McCown's contract is up at the end of the year.  Griese will be here as do I expect Garcia's contract to be extended.  So that leaves a spot open either to a draft pick or Josh Johnson.  McCown is gone, if not this year, next year.

yuccaneers

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« #11 : June 14, 2008, 01:53:18 PM »

Badabing - while you point out all of his downfalls from 2004, what you are forgetting is they had no offensive line, no running game and no receivers on that team, not to mention he was thrown to the wolves

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

yuccaneers

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« #12 : June 14, 2008, 01:54:49 PM »

The Bucs are not tied to Griese after this season and arent even tied to him this coming season, smart money is to lock McCown up to a deal similar to what Garcia signed last year with huge incentives then worry about Garcia after that

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

Badabing

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« #13 : June 14, 2008, 02:01:30 PM »

Badabing - while you point out all of his downfalls from 2004, what you are forgetting is they had no offensive line, no running game and no receivers on that team, not to mention he was thrown to the wolves

You know Garcia was on that team as well.

funny how Garcia stunk in Cleveland and Detroit because of him, but when it comes to McCown it was the rest of the teams fault.  That is exactly why some eagle fans up here(I live in Philly Area) dont like McNabb because the media would blame the offensive line, the WRs, etc. and wouldn't put any blame on McNabb.

yuccaneers

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« #14 : June 14, 2008, 02:03:30 PM »

Yeah, and If I remember correctly he would not take charge of the team thus was deactivated the final few games, then released that off-season

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith
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