The Great QB Debate?

[lhasara]

I posted this in another thread:

Another interesting stat (at least to me):  The Saints had THE WORST pass defense in the league in 2007 as ranked by opposing QB passer rating, which was 96.9!!, on average of every QB to play them, including the likes of Carr, Redman, and Orton. In fact the Bucs offense played FIVE games against teams ranked in the BOTTOM five of the league, as ranked by opposing QB rating. Fully eleven of their games were against teams in the bottom thirteen (13 of 32) in the league.

My biggest reservation regarding McCown is that in five of the games he played, the defensive opponents were ranked 32th(NO), 30th(Hou),
28th(SF), 25th(Atl), and 21st(Car), and frankly wonder how he would fare against more elite defensive competition.  At least in part, I think this explains his QB rating during his limited play.

The Crow's Nest

[umguy1999]

Garcia is the best QB on the team BY FAR for Grudens system, and the second best QB to ever run his system, having said that Grudens system has been around just enough for teams to have no more fear of it, than any other WCO. Until Gruden puts his ego in check and comes up with a plan B and rethinks his entire system we will never put an offense on the field like he had in Oakland!
As far as Luke having "all the physical tools" don't 90% of the QB's in the NFL have those tools as well?  The ones that don't have those tools are the weak armed guys, or the shorter guys.  If he was anything special we would know by now, he is being quiet because there is not much for him to say. He is under contract, he was never the named starter. I suppose a lifetime back-up could have gotten mad when they brought in Griese, but how stupid would he look given who he is and his position on this team to ask for more money? If he is our future then we will be lucky to even keep an NFL team. Even with Garcia. a QB tailor fit for this offense we can't seem to field a middle of the pack offense.
DIlfer had all the physical tools, Griese had all the physical tools, Rob Johnson had all the physical tools. The physical tools mean nothing when our offense system can be dissected by an average High School coach, for being a complicated offense, it sure seems easy to figure out. Just figure the ball will be thrown within 5 yards of the LOS most of the time and you should be able to beat us, unless your defense makes a few mistakes, but our offense certainly won't dictate a win or a loss.

[Badabing]

Yeah, and If I remember correctly he would not take charge of the team thus was deactivated the final few games, then released that off-season

week 2- Bucs win 31-14 over Saints.  Garcia boasts a 145.8 QB rating, throws for 243 yards and tosses 2 TDs.  He tosses a 40 some odd yard bomb to Galloway to get the Bucs inside the 10 yard line, setting up a Caddy TD..  On another, he rushes to the Saints 1 yard line, setting up another Caddy TD.  NO TURNOVERS

Week 3-Bucs win 24-3 over Rams.  Earnest Graham was the hero here, but we were only up 10-3 late in the 4th quarter and Garcia NOT turning the ball over was huge here.  Afterall when you have  QB handing the other team points, a 10-3 is not as comfortable as you think.

Week 4-Bucs win 20-7 over Carolina.  NO TURNOVERS by Garcia and he rushed for a Touchdown.  The defense played huge here, but once again no short field to defend on turnovers.

Week 6-Bucs win 13-10 over Titans.  Garcia has a QB rating in the 100s and throws for over 274 yards with a touchdown pass.  If that isn't enough he leads the team in a tie game late in the 4th on the game winning field goal drive.

Week 9-Bucs win 17-10 over Arizona.  Garcia has a QB rating of 96.7 with a TD pass.  The Bucs D was sufficating, but NO TURNOVERS from Garcia....

Week 11-Bucs beat Atlanta 31-7.  Garcia has a 110 QB rating with 2 touchdown pases.  No turnovers.

Week 12-Bucs win 19-13 over Washington.  Garcia had all of 4 pass attempts in this game but Gruden wasn't confident enough in Gradkowski or McCown(McCown was 3rd QB but in the 4th Quarter the 3rd QB can come in and play-hell just have to play the rest of the game)  The D came up huge in this game

Week 15-Bucs win 37-3.  Looks like we could have QBed this game and won, Leftwich was just horrible this game.

The next game San Fran, Garcia doesnt even play a full 2 quarters and throws for 196 yards with a TD pass and a rating of 109.


NOW let's rewind and see what McCown may have done.  We will never know, but let's say he continues with his average of 1-2 turnovers a game with 1 TD pass, alonmg with giving the other teams points.

Week 2-Saints- Bucs win 31-14 with Jeff.  Take away 4 TDs Jeff set up, add in 2 TDs McCown would probably account for and give the Saints another 7 since it looks like McCown would give them a pick 6 somewhere down the road or atleast set them up nice.  Final.  Saints win 21-17.

Week 3- Rams- Bucs win 24-3 with Jeff.  Add a TD McCown would get, but also add a TD to the Rams off a turnover set up by McCown.  Take away atleast one Earnest Graham TD considering the game would be close and we would probably throw th eball.  Final.  Bucs win 24-10

Week 4-Panthers- Bucs win 20-7 with Jeff.  Take away Garcia's rushing TD, add a TD by McCown, add 7 Pts to Panthers off a McCown turnover.  Bucs win 20-14

Week 6-Titans-Bucs win 13-10 with Jeff.  Take away TD set up along with field goal set up.  Add McCown TD and a Titans TD.  Titans win 17-10.

Week 9-Arizona-Bucs win 17-10 with Jeff.  Take away TD set up by Jeff, add TD by McCown, add 1 TD for other team due to McCown turnovers.  Game tied at 17-17, but I'll be nice and say we win it in OT 20-17.

Week 11-Atlanta-Bucs win 31-7.  Take away two TDs by Garcia, add one by McCown, add 7 to Atlanta.  Bucs win 24-14.
Week 12-Redskins-Bucs win 19-13 with Jeff.  If the 49ers could get 14 pts from McCown, I'd say hed struggle with Washington.  Bucs would probably lose this one 20-19 if Gradkowski or McCown played in this game.

So I'd say with McCown we'd be 6-10 and in 3rd place in the division.  But hey we'd be better in the long run.  Now let me here how you think we'd be 12-4 with McCown last season, especially when he went 1-3 on his own.

[Badabing]

I posted this in another thread:

Another interesting stat (at least to me): The Saints had THE WORST pass defense in the league in 2007 as ranked by opposing QB passer rating, which was 96.9!!, on average of every QB to play them, including the likes of Carr, Redman, and Orton. In fact the Bucs offense played FIVE games against teams ranked in the BOTTOM five of the league, as ranked by opposing QB rating. Fully eleven of their games were against teams in the bottom thirteen (13 of 32) in the league.

My biggest reservation regarding McCown is that in five of the games he played, the defensive opponents were ranked 32th(NO), 30th(Hou),
28th(SF), 25th(Atl), and 21st(Car), and frankly wonder how he would fare against more elite defensive competition. At least in part, I think this explains his QB rating during his limited play.

The Crow's Nest

you mean that even tho Garcia already had a higher QB rating, McCowns would probably be even lower if he played against defenses like Indianapolis(3rd), Tennessee(5th), Washington(8th), Jacksonville(12th), Seattle(15th) etc.  I couldnt find how those teams rank with opposing QB ratings...but overall D weren't too bad...

[lhasara]

I posted this in another thread:

Another interesting stat (at least to me): The Saints had THE WORST pass defense in the league in 2007 as ranked by opposing QB passer rating, which was 96.9!!, on average of every QB to play them, including the likes of Carr, Redman, and Orton. In fact the Bucs offense played FIVE games against teams ranked in the BOTTOM five of the league, as ranked by opposing QB rating. Fully eleven of their games were against teams in the bottom thirteen (13 of 32) in the league.

My biggest reservation regarding McCown is that in five of the games he played, the defensive opponents were ranked 32th(NO), 30th(Hou),
28th(SF), 25th(Atl), and 21st(Car), and frankly wonder how he would fare against more elite defensive competition. At least in part, I think this explains his QB rating during his limited play.

The Crow's Nest

you mean that even tho Garcia already had a higher QB rating, McCowns would probably be even lower if he played against defenses like Indianapolis(3rd), Tennessee(5th), Washington(8th), Jacksonville(12th), Seattle(15th) etc. I couldnt find how those teams rank with opposing QB ratings...but overall D weren't too bad...

Obviously, there is no way of knowing how McCown may have done against those teams. My point in other threads has been that Garcia did not do too well against those better defensive teams either. He and Grads did manage to beat Washinton, but the defense gave them SIX turnovers, and they still couldn't crack twenty points. Garcia put up decent numbers against Indy, but only managed 14 points in a game that was never in doubt. Similar story against Seattle with only 6 points. Garcia did manage a comeback win against Tenn, but with a whopping 13 points. They finally did manage to score more than twenty against Jax, but you could argue that Garcia lost that game with his THREE picks, just like his fumbles were so costly against Det.

Again, as I've posted previously, the Bucs beat up on their own division by scoring 169 points (28.1ppg) in those six games (more than half of their season total), but only 165 points in their remaining ten games (16.5ppg) Not too good, IMHO. I still think that this years' QBs get so much credit ONLY because of the disaster that was 2006. Despite much weaker defensive competition, they only threw one more TD pass than Griese/Simms did in 2005!

The Crow's Nest