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1sparkybuc

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#15 : June 15, 2008, 01:16:16 PM

Some people have unrealistic expectations. McCown is still in the single digits in NFL games he's played in and yet he had a QB rating 3 points less than our starter who has 15 years+ in professional football. Check the records of any HOF QB you want for their first 10 games for a more accurate perspective. McCown has the best tools on our roster. He just lacks experience.

When (not if) Garcia has a lost time injury, we will see either Griese or McCown at QB. If it's Griese, when (not if) he throws an interception that costs the Bucs a W, we will see McCown at QB. All QBs make mistakes but I believe he will correct some of the issues he had last year. The OL will be much improved with Faine at center. His backfield will be a strong point and his TEs and WRs will be better as well. McCown can win games with this team for years to come IMO. A QB rating of 91 is better than most in the league, and he did it without all of the starters. It would be a huge mistake to fail to sign him to an extension. I believe Bruce Allen knows that.

stereochemistry

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#16 : June 15, 2008, 02:26:49 PM

Because I dont know how you think McCown is battletested enough to be named the starter in week 1. It's important to start off the season on a winning note otherwise we end up playing catch-up for the rest of the year.

Didn't we lose last year's Week 1 game?



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#17 : June 15, 2008, 02:36:27 PM

Because I dont know how you think McCown is battletested enough to be named the starter in week 1. It's important to start off the season on a winning note otherwise we end up playing catch-up for the rest of the year.

Didn't we lose last year's Week 1 game?


Lost our 1st in our SB year as well.

stereochemistry

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#18 : June 15, 2008, 03:48:35 PM

Because I dont know how you think McCown is battletested enough to be named the starter in week 1. It's important to start off the season on a winning note otherwise we end up playing catch-up for the rest of the year.

Didn't we lose last year's Week 1 game?


Lost our 1st in our SB year as well.

I'm sure quite a few teams have reasonable seasons after losing in Week1 (Hell, I think around half the teams in the league lose their first game :p ), but I just found it odd to point out a reason to start Garcia is so we don't lose week 1....when last year we lost week 1 when we started Garcia, but he turned around a strong enough performance on the year to warrant automatically starting him this season.  Kind of a rough argument for me to get my head around.

Badabing

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#19 : June 15, 2008, 04:32:15 PM

We should start Garcia in week 1 because its what any sane football Knowledgeable person would do...

Should we start a probowl Quarterback who throws a higher percentage of TDs per attempt, turns the ball over less, takes less sacks, and is able to win ball games, or should we start who Luke McCown, a guy who turns the ball over at least once a game, takes sacks like it's his job, and was barely able to win 1 game.

Give me a break.  Luke McCown sucks.  Get over it guys.  He did good against the Saints IN THE FIRST HALF.  He was total butt cheaks in the 2nd half and gave them 9 pts to get right back in it.  IF Garcia was in that game, you can forget about the heartburn you got during that game, becuase we'd probably would have won 20-10 or something like that.  Also, McCown didn't do any great against Houston WITH THE STARTERS......He sucked against the 49ers without the starters, but honestly Garcia would have won that game and your an idiot if you dont think he would have....


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#20 : June 15, 2008, 04:34:00 PM

I love how Garcia being in the game would mean the Saints only score 10. You're usually a good poster Badabing but that's a load of BS.

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#21 : June 15, 2008, 04:41:32 PM

well MBF...I certainly wouldnt think it would be 27-23......I'd say no more than 14 pts for the Saints.....

Afterall McCown put the Bucs in the situation to play catch up, by single handedly handing the Saints 9 pts on a silver plater...


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#22 : June 15, 2008, 04:42:55 PM

True, but you can't discount his play in that game. Other than the safety he was money.

Badabing

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#23 : June 15, 2008, 04:49:31 PM

MBF, he certainly exceeded by expectations the way he came out and completed pass after pass.  I didn't like his pick 6 or safety, but the NO game was certainly the best game of his career and probably will go down as the best game he ever played.  He converted a 4th down and tossed a game winning TD to Stevens.


However, after that game, enough is enough.  With the starters, he did nothing impressive in Houston.  He entered the SF game with a TD lead, a game in which Garcia carved the 49ers up for 196 yards in not even 2 quarters of play.  He did play that half and CAR without Galloway and Graham, but I still think the Bucs would have came out on top with Garcia.  Heck Garcia played with 2nd and 3rd string RB in there before, he lost his starting left tackle, he played games with his starting TE and slot WR. 

I am not taking anything away from McCown, he did good for us last year, but he isn't even close to being mentioned in the same sentence as Garcia; and I think if a fan from another team came to this board, he'd think we were crazy even discussing this....Luke McCown is the equivilant to Ken Dorsey, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Moore.  He is nothing special and because we got a journeyman QB, we want to replace him, but we aint going to do that this year.
Remember, we won with a journeyman in Brad Johnson.  He was actually less talented than Jeff Garcia. 

We wont be happy until we start the season out like 5-2 and then Garcia gets hurt, Griese comes in and gets hurt on his first series, then McCown comes in and finishes off the season and we finish 8-8.

GameTime

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#24 : June 16, 2008, 09:08:13 AM

  I didn't like his pick 6

hasnt it been verified that galloway was at fault?


I am not taking anything away from McCown,

except for repeatedly saying he sucks.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"



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#25 : June 16, 2008, 09:05:21 AM

Didn't McCown also only play in one game with the starting offense? The New Orleans game. I'm not saying he is the answer, but we'll need to see a lot more on him before making a final decision either way.

The biggest issue I see with Luke is in the pocket...he is quick to give up on plays, and tries to be a hero

How many "ELITE" QB's stared off their careers like this. The kid has only played in like 4 career games.

Not saying Luke will be an "ELITE" QB but give the kid 1-2 years in the fire being the #2, learning from Jeff, I think his issues are coachable.

Not like what we had with Grads...not a pro arm, cannot read defenses, stupid throws

All in all in the scheme of things I LOVE what I see in Luke's core abilities as a QB

cyberdude557

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#26 : June 16, 2008, 08:39:14 AM

Ive just been let down too many times in the past going back to Shaun King. These new guys that come in are supposed to be great. They show flash for about a half-dozen games or so and then go flat. So I've grown some skepticism over the past decade.

This is a smart league. Other teams find strategies to target your weaknesses. And when you have a bunch of games under your belt, the weaknesses start to stick out very easily.

Also remember that New Orleans game would be a loss if it wasnt for one of the dumbest playcalls I've ever seen in my life by Sean Payton.

1sparkybuc

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#27 : June 16, 2008, 08:29:01 AM

Badabing, you should offer your services to the Bucs as a talent evaluator. They might be under the delusion that McCown will get better when he actually has participated in 10 or 11 NFL games. You should set them straight. You might also want to suggest that they lock up Garcia to a 10 year contract. Just imagine what he could do with another 10 years of experience. Maybe Josh Johnson would be ready to take over when Garcia retires at age 48.

How sad to be so funny and so pessimistic at the same time.

TBayXXXVII

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#28 : June 16, 2008, 11:24:13 AM

Here is the bottom line as I see it with our QB situation.  QB's like Garcia may win games, but that's all they do... win regular season games... not playoff games.  He's simply not a playmaker and when you don't have a playmaker at the QB position, you basically limit the playmaking ability of your WR's, TE's, and RB's.  So, while Garcia gives us the best chance to be 10-6 and knocked out of the playoffs in the first ronud... again, I'd rather have the guy in there that could be a playmaker.  With that will most likely come with growing pains, but if you want stagnation with no real upside... Garcia, then fine, but I'd rather be a little more of a gambler and run with McCown.

He has shown a little bit of the gunslinger inside of him and I find it quite intriguing.  I also think that the receiving corp would rather see that as well.  Garcia is excellent at those WCO short slant routes, but since our biggest playmaker (Galloway), excels at the posts, deep slants, and deep outs, (like I previously stated), it's really handcuffing our WR playmakers from making plays.  That will then trickle down to the running game.  More 8-in-the-box, a lesser yards per carry, more passes... MORE PUNTS!  Yes, putting in McCown could lead to a 5-11 season, but I'd rather have a 5-11 season with an upside of playoff wins and franchise QB than to go 9-7, 10-6, or 11-5 and either miss the playoffs or lose another first round game.

Personally, I see no downside to McCown.  Either we win games and have a potential franchise QB or we stink and end up with a top 5 pick and draft a player like Crabtree and give McCown another crack at it.  If he does well, then it this year was the typical first year growing pains.  If he doesn't, then Johnson will have had 2 years to learn the system and he could have Michael Crabtree and Dexter Jackson to throw to.  Not too bad of a situation for me.

All that being said, I won't be upset at all who the QB is this year, but I will be a little more excited if it's McCown (or even Griese - after all, he did do well as the starter here.  Those end zone INT's do have to stop though).



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#29 : June 16, 2008, 01:24:06 PM

Here is the bottom line as I see it with our QB situation. QB's like Garcia may win games, but that's all they do... win regular season games... not playoff games. He's simply not a playmaker and when you don't have a playmaker at the QB position, you basically limit the playmaking ability of your WR's, TE's, and RB's. So, while Garcia gives us the best chance to be 10-6 and knocked out of the playoffs in the first ronud... again, I'd rather have the guy in there that could be a playmaker. With that will most likely come with growing pains, but if you want stagnation with no real upside... Garcia, then fine, but I'd rather be a little more of a gambler and run with McCown.

He has shown a little bit of the gunslinger inside of him and I find it quite intriguing. I also think that the receiving corp would rather see that as well. Garcia is excellent at those WCO short slant routes, but since our biggest playmaker (Galloway), excels at the posts, deep slants, and deep outs, (like I previously stated), it's really handcuffing our WR playmakers from making plays. That will then trickle down to the running game. More 8-in-the-box, a lesser yards per carry, more passes... MORE PUNTS! Yes, putting in McCown could lead to a 5-11 season, but I'd rather have a 5-11 season with an upside of playoff wins and franchise QB than to go 9-7, 10-6, or 11-5 and either miss the playoffs or lose another first round game.

Personally, I see no downside to McCown. Either we win games and have a potential franchise QB or we stink and end up with a top 5 pick and draft a player like Crabtree and give McCown another crack at it. If he does well, then it this year was the typical first year growing pains. If he doesn't, then Johnson will have had 2 years to learn the system and he could have Michael Crabtree and Dexter Jackson to throw to. Not too bad of a situation for me.

All that being said, I won't be upset at all who the QB is this year, but I will be a little more excited if it's McCown (or even Griese - after all, he did do well as the starter here. Those end zone INT's do have to stop though).

The biggest difference I see with Garcia and Luke is football knowledge

Garcia has had many years of NFL football and especially in similar offenses (SF, Detroit) to Jon's and picking up the complexities of this offense was just like adding an expansion pack to your favorite computer game to Jeff

Luke knows the offense but his problem is patience and making the right move. He sees mismatches, he calls correct audibles, and is starting to get that knowelge needed to be a stellar Jon Gruden QB

Most people here just see what is out there...he caused a safety, he runs out of bounds, he threw a pick 6

Most people dont realize that the Pick 6 he threw in NO was a correct read of the defense by his part to cause a mismatch with Galloway...if he doesnt get jacked up and throws a misplaced ball its 80 yards and a touchdown Tampa

You sometimes have to look at the core qualities of a QB...he poseses great vision, great football knowledge, and the ability to make something out of nothing
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