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JC510

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#30 : June 16, 2008, 01:29:13 PM

100.6 QB rating in his 3 starts last season.

1sparkybuc

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#31 : June 17, 2008, 03:50:32 AM

Here is the bottom line as I see it with our QB situation.  QB's like Garcia may win games, but that's all they do... win regular season games... not playoff games.  He's simply not a playmaker and when you don't have a playmaker at the QB position, you basically limit the playmaking ability of your WR's, TE's, and RB's.  So, while Garcia gives us the best chance to be 10-6 and knocked out of the playoffs in the first ronud... again, I'd rather have the guy in there that could be a playmaker.  With that will most likely come with growing pains, but if you want stagnation with no real upside... Garcia, then fine, but I'd rather be a little more of a gambler and run with McCown.

He has shown a little bit of the gunslinger inside of him and I find it quite intriguing.  I also think that the receiving corp would rather see that as well.  Garcia is excellent at those WCO short slant routes, but since our biggest playmaker (Galloway), excels at the posts, deep slants, and deep outs, (like I previously stated), it's really handcuffing our WR playmakers from making plays.  That will then trickle down to the running game.  More 8-in-the-box, a lesser yards per carry, more passes... MORE PUNTS!  Yes, putting in McCown could lead to a 5-11 season, but I'd rather have a 5-11 season with an upside of playoff wins and franchise QB than to go 9-7, 10-6, or 11-5 and either miss the playoffs or lose another first round game.

Personally, I see no downside to McCown.  Either we win games and have a potential franchise QB or we stink and end up with a top 5 pick and draft a player like Crabtree and give McCown another crack at it.  If he does well, then it this year was the typical first year growing pains.  If he doesn't, then Johnson will have had 2 years to learn the system and he could have Michael Crabtree and Dexter Jackson to throw to.  Not too bad of a situation for me.

All that being said, I won't be upset at all who the QB is this year, but I will be a little more excited if it's McCown (or even Griese - after all, he did do well as the starter here.  Those end zone INT's do have to stop though).

I agree with almost all of your post with the exception of your 5-11 prediction with McCown. The Bucs have never had an OL this solid. The RBs will be a top ten unit behind them. They ranked 11th with Graham as the main contributor. This year we have real speed and options that make the position dangerous. Defenses will have to account for it and when they do, the passing game will make them pay. Bryant and Jackson give the receiving corps added speed and the TE position is much stronger. McCown is accurate and has the strongest arm on the team discounting Simms. McCown is very familiar with the play book and will get better with experience. Garcia would start the season better but McCown would finish it better. I hope Gruden will give him a chance to prove what he can do sooner rather than later.

Badabing

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#32 : June 17, 2008, 07:46:52 AM

Badabing, you should offer your services to the Bucs as a talent evaluator. They might be under the delusion that McCown will get better when he actually has participated in 10 or 11 NFL games. You should set them straight. You might also want to suggest that they lock up Garcia to a 10 year contract. Just imagine what he could do with another 10 years of experience. Maybe Josh Johnson would be ready to take over when Garcia retires at age 48.

How sad to be so funny and so pessimistic at the same time.

oh I get it, b/c McCown is younger, he is better....

I'd sign Garcia to 1 year ext. and give him 5 million a year.  If he doesn't like it, then hes stuck with our current contract.

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#33 : June 17, 2008, 07:58:53 AM

WHY do you think Griese was brought in...because Gruden saw what happened when Luke didn't have all the plays scripted for him like in N.O. when they had no film on him...lucky break we won that game...he didn't win any more though...and the turnovers and sacks he took were very telling....Luke can run fast and throw the ball better then anybody on our team...but he don't have the savvy,that even Griese has...and I can't stand SOB...but at least he can audible...Garcia is the best qb the Bucs ever had...but hes battered and this may be his last good year...and next year hopefully hes splitting time with Josh Johnson who may be the future a lot sooner then people think.

SOB is here because he knows this offense.  And if I remember correctly, he's pretty good in the room when they are installing the game plan.  It just doesn't transfer well between the lines for him.  His last play here produce a 5-1 record.  Should count for something, ay?

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


cheveliar

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#34 : June 17, 2008, 01:46:09 PM

WHY do you think Griese was brought in...because Gruden saw what happened when Luke didn't have all the plays scripted for him like in N.O. when they had no film on him...lucky break we won that game...he didn't win any more though...and the turnovers and sacks he took were very telling....Luke can run fast and throw the ball better then anybody on our team...but he don't have the savvy,that even Griese has...and I can't stand SOB...but at least he can audible...Garcia is the best qb the Bucs ever had...but hes battered and this may be his last good year...and next year hopefully hes splitting time with Josh Johnson who may be the future a lot sooner then people think.
Please Pat, tell me that you're not seriously implying that Griese is better than Luke. Griese after all these years makes the same bonehead mistakes Luke gets chastised for. The difference is, we hope Luke can learn from those mistakes. We already know that Griese has not, and will continue to make them.

Let's hope they both learn as they both may play this year...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#35 : June 17, 2008, 01:37:00 PM

WHY do you think Griese was brought in...because Gruden saw what happened when Luke didn't have all the plays scripted for him like in N.O. when they had no film on him...lucky break we won that game...he didn't win any more though...and the turnovers and sacks he took were very telling....Luke can run fast and throw the ball better then anybody on our team...but he don't have the savvy,that even Griese has...and I can't stand SOB...but at least he can audible...Garcia is the best qb the Bucs ever had...but hes battered and this may be his last good year...and next year hopefully hes splitting time with Josh Johnson who may be the future a lot sooner then people think.
Please Pat, tell me that you're not seriously implying that Griese is better than Luke. Griese after all these years makes the same bonehead mistakes Luke gets chastised for. The difference is, we hope Luke can learn from those mistakes. We already know that Griese has not, and will continue to make them.

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#36 : June 17, 2008, 11:08:46 AM

Feel much more comfortable with Garcia back there,hes less apt to cause a turnover...but if LUKE could keep from turning the ball over and taking way too many sacks...he has a great arm and he can really run fast...its just the decesion making ,holding the ball to long,picking up the open receiver,knowing when to take off and run,can't stand there and take all those sacks.

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#37 : June 17, 2008, 01:51:12 PM

WHY do you think Griese was brought in...because Gruden saw what happened when Luke didn't have all the plays scripted for him like in N.O. when they had no film on him...lucky break we won that game...he didn't win any more though...and the turnovers and sacks he took were very telling....Luke can run fast and throw the ball better then anybody on our team...but he don't have the savvy,that even Griese has...and I can't stand SOB...but at least he can audible...Garcia is the best qb the Bucs ever had...but hes battered and this may be his last good year...and next year hopefully hes splitting time with Josh Johnson who may be the future a lot sooner then people think.
Please Pat, tell me that you're not seriously implying that Griese is better than Luke. Griese after all these years makes the same bonehead mistakes Luke gets chastised for. The difference is, we hope Luke can learn from those mistakes. We already know that Griese has not, and will continue to make them.

Let's hope they both learn as they both may play this year...
Can one really hope that after all this time Griese is capable of learning?

cheveliar

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#38 : June 17, 2008, 01:56:00 PM

I really think it takes time to learn the QB position.  Most of that time comes with an amount of seeing things and then recognizing them when next you see them again.  Griese has GREAT genes, you can't tell me his ole man hasn't schooled him or talked to him about the mistakes he's made and how to correct them.  I refuse to believe you have a HOF resource like that and won't use it...I know we all thow that 5-1 thing up all the time, but he looked then like he was getting it...at least that record showed he was...IDK

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#39 : June 17, 2008, 01:59:34 PM

This is his 11th season Chev. If he doesn't already have it, I'm not expecting him to ever get it. No matter who his father is.

Lamond

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#40 : June 17, 2008, 02:18:07 PM

C'mon Ralph.


This is his 11th season Chev. If he doesn't already have it, I'm not expecting him to ever get it. No matter who his father is.


4bucs

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#41 : June 17, 2008, 02:27:31 PM

abuccs,I can't stand Griese but feel better with him in there then McCown...SOB can read defenses and change a play ...I don't have that confidence in Luke...if we keep Garcia in one piece we will go deep into the playoffs...this is jmo  jimmy but by now you know i''ve been right a lot more then wrong....Garcia is the best qb the Bucs ever had...and this year may be his last where hes playing a lot...next year not so much... me thinks ( f y  dave ;).)

cheveliar

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#42 : June 17, 2008, 03:23:54 PM

This is his 11th season Chev. If he doesn't already have it, I'm not expecting him to ever get it. No matter who his father is.

I'm a computer geek by trade. And when I first learned SQL Server there were a lot of things I didn't know just because I wasn't exposed to them.  Same with any job, but moreso as a QB in the league.  You can never see too many defenses.  Really you can never see too many disguises.  The coverages are pretty much the same, but the way DC's bring them to you can be confusing.  Hopefully he's got those veteran tricks of the trade down that will alllow him to get better pre-snap and in-play reads on what the defense is going to do and make the right decisions.  That goes for Luke and SOB.

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#43 : June 17, 2008, 07:39:32 PM

This is his 11th season Chev. If he doesn't already have it, I'm not expecting him to ever get it. No matter who his father is.

I'm a computer geek by trade. And when I first learned SQL Server there were a lot of things I didn't know just because I wasn't exposed to them.  Same with any job, but moreso as a QB in the league.  You can never see too many defenses.  Really you can never see too many disguises.  The coverages are pretty much the same, but the way DC's bring them to you can be confusing.  Hopefully he's got those veteran tricks of the trade down that will alllow him to get better pre-snap and in-play reads on what the defense is going to do and make the right decisions.  That goes for Luke and SOB.
He was behind Rex Grossman on the depth chart. That's scary. He will be #2 on the depth chart this season, and it won't be because he's earned it. He's already been handed that job.

TBayXXXVII

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#44 : June 19, 2008, 10:25:46 AM

Here is the bottom line as I see it with our QB situation. QB's like Garcia may win games, but that's all they do... win regular season games... not playoff games. He's simply not a playmaker and when you don't have a playmaker at the QB position, you basically limit the playmaking ability of your WR's, TE's, and RB's. So, while Garcia gives us the best chance to be 10-6 and knocked out of the playoffs in the first ronud... again, I'd rather have the guy in there that could be a playmaker. With that will most likely come with growing pains, but if you want stagnation with no real upside... Garcia, then fine, but I'd rather be a little more of a gambler and run with McCown.

He has shown a little bit of the gunslinger inside of him and I find it quite intriguing. I also think that the receiving corp would rather see that as well. Garcia is excellent at those WCO short slant routes, but since our biggest playmaker (Galloway), excels at the posts, deep slants, and deep outs, (like I previously stated), it's really handcuffing our WR playmakers from making plays. That will then trickle down to the running game. More 8-in-the-box, a lesser yards per carry, more passes... MORE PUNTS! Yes, putting in McCown could lead to a 5-11 season, but I'd rather have a 5-11 season with an upside of playoff wins and franchise QB than to go 9-7, 10-6, or 11-5 and either miss the playoffs or lose another first round game.

Personally, I see no downside to McCown. Either we win games and have a potential franchise QB or we stink and end up with a top 5 pick and draft a player like Crabtree and give McCown another crack at it. If he does well, then it this year was the typical first year growing pains. If he doesn't, then Johnson will have had 2 years to learn the system and he could have Michael Crabtree and Dexter Jackson to throw to. Not too bad of a situation for me.

All that being said, I won't be upset at all who the QB is this year, but I will be a little more excited if it's McCown (or even Griese - after all, he did do well as the starter here. Those end zone INT's do have to stop though).

I agree with almost all of your post with the exception of your 5-11 prediction with McCown. The Bucs have never had an OL this solid. The RBs will be a top ten unit behind them. They ranked 11th with Graham as the main contributor. This year we have real speed and options that make the position dangerous. Defenses will have to account for it and when they do, the passing game will make them pay. Bryant and Jackson give the receiving corps added speed and the TE position is much stronger. McCown is accurate and has the strongest arm on the team discounting Simms. McCown is very familiar with the play book and will get better with experience. Garcia would start the season better but McCown would finish it better. I hope Gruden will give him a chance to prove what he can do sooner rather than later.

It wasn't a prediction as much as it was a possible "worst-case-scenario".
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