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Orangegone1

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#105 : December 22, 2006, 12:13:23 PM

That article is spot on I agree with it 110%. Gruden may well have been what was needed to push this franchise over the top and win a superbowl.
Now we need to rebuild through the draft & free agency. Gruden just doesn't have the patience for dealing with rookies and his record with free agents especially on the offensive side is pretty lack luster. Not only that but his reputation around the league among players isn't helpful in attracting talent.
The best move the Bucs could make is to fire him and hire a coach with a track record at developing young players. Chargers offensive coordinator Cam Cameron would be my choice. He developed both Drew Brees & Phillip Rivers not to mention he has LT setting, no not just setting but shattering the single season TD record.

Talk about not having patience. You want to get rid of a coach that has won 4 division titles in his last 7 years for an unproven head coach. This team needs talent especially at QB. The lost draft pick have been discussed. It is so easy to be swayed by the negative media if you aren't very observant. Rivers and Brees were 1st round picks. They were developed and successful in college. This is a key off-season and it is pretty obvious which holes need to be filled, and the head coach is not the main problem.

Runole

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#106 : December 22, 2006, 03:12:37 PM

I find it stunning and breathtaking that the Tampa Tribune and The St. Petersburg Times ALWAYS fail to mention Tampa Bay's salary cap woes over the past couple of years. The major, overriding factor in failing to keep the likes of John Lynch, Joe Jurevicius, Warren Sapp, Thomas Jones and others is that the Bucs couldn't afford to keep them and attempt to upgrade the team in other areas that needed upgrading.

The word "banished" is shameful, and quite frankly, poor journalism that implies that Jon Gruden simply didn't want those players.

Ask yourself this, Buccaneers fans. Why has Pewter Report been the ONLY media outlet in Tampa Bay to even MENTION the salary cap struggles this team has faced over the last couple of seasons that have forced the Bucs to make some unpopular roster moves? Ask yourself this question whenever you read a negative article on the Buccaneers that discusses Gruden or Allen: "Does it mention the salary cap as a factor for the team's inability to keep certain players or get certain players?"

Why haven't the Times and the Tribune EVER bothered to get to the bottom of the team's salary cap mess and figure out how the Bucs got in such cap hell? Where are those articles? Perhaps you should contact the papers and demand answers as to why neither paper has neglected to even find out why the Bucs were $19 million over the cap in 2004 and question why that happened.

Why is Pewter Report the only media that has even bothered figuring out why the salary cap has been such an issue for this team during its rebuilding? You would think two major newspapers would actually take a stab at figuring it out. Maybe they don't because it would point a finger at the previous regime for some questionable contracts and extensions that have gotten a pass from the Times and Tribune because of their cozy relationship with the person who signed those deals and a person who is still conveniently used as an "unnamed league source."

Also, it's just too easy and convenient for the papers to just blame Jon Gruden and Bruce Allen and keep rehashing the mantra of "Steussie, Deese and Garner." While the Tribune does make several valid points in its editorial, its convenient and egregious omission any reference of salary cap struggles is quite shoddy.

Allen and Gruden deserve a hell of a lot of blame for the shortcomings of this terrible, 3-10 football team. And it would be hard for Pewter Report to argue the Glazers' decision to make a change – if in fact they do. However, the coverage of the Gruden-Allen era of Bucs football has not been near as fair and balanced by the newspapers as it has been by Pewter Report. That is disappointing.

And for the Tribune to short-change Gruden with the wrong theory that he won with Dungy's team is a myth that is easy to debunk when you consider that the following EIGHT players started on offense (remember, you only have ELEVEN players on offense on the field at the same time) at one time in the 2002 season:

RB Michael Pittman
TE Ken Dilger
TE Ricky Dudley
LT Roman Oben
LG Kerry Jenkins
WR Joe Jurevicius
WR Keenan McCardell
QB Rob Johnson (surprisingly, he was 2-0 as a Bucs starter)

...and the following FOURTEEN players were brought in during 2002 and never played for Dungy:

OT Lomas Brown
FB Darian Barnes
LS Ryan Benjamin
DT DeVone Claybrooks
TE Casey Crawford
LB Jack Golden
OT Dan Goodspeed
OT Cornell Green
DT Buck Gurley
FS Jermaine Phillips
DE Greg Spires
P Tom Tupa
CB Tim Wansley
TE Daniel Wilcox

That's a total of 22 new players out of 53 on the roster. I guess it's fair to say that Gruden won with almost HALF of Dungy's team. Consider that these players who were on IR in 2002 never played for Dungy and the number swells to 28, which is more than half:

WR Charles Lee
LB Ryan Nece
LS Mike Solwold
DE Corey Smith
RB Travis Stephens
WR Marquise Walker

It's okay for the newspapers or fans to criticize Gruden, I do it, too. He certainly deserved it in 2003, 2004 and without a doubt in 2006. I just wish that they would arm themselves with all of the facts when doing so – especially respected media outlets such as newspapers.



And this is why I enjoy the Pewter report on 620 and this fine website.  Actual facts and logic.... mostly absent in all other printed and broadcasted media.

Glad I no longer purchase the Tampa Tribune

Itchalot

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#107 : December 22, 2006, 06:44:55 PM

Not bad for a "fanzine!"


Boid Fink

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#108 : December 22, 2006, 09:28:24 PM

In all honesty, the editorial was written by a woman that likely has no insight whatsoever when it comes to he NFL.

Furthermore, wouldnn't youthik there are beter topic foa woman to place on the editorial page?? :o

Maybe she should have remained at home to do laundry or cook or raise kid or dog at her husandfor aching TV all day on Sundays.
Not very nice of ya, Prefer...

Some women know their shidt.

But yeah, she deserves some critique, espescially if you have a skewed P.o.V.


Boid, what ever happend with the Trib? Did you call them back?
Keeponbucn, they called me back, and said they were going to print the letter I wrote them.  Not sure when, but they said they would send me a copy of the paper when they do.  Within a week or so, she said...


karen anderson

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#109 : December 22, 2006, 10:48:58 PM

They called back again (The Tribune) today, and said they were going to publish my rebuttal. And they were going to send me a free copy of it in a week or two.

They even asked if it was Boid Fink, and I had to tell them it was...(snicker).


On the editorial or sports page?? To whom do I report that offensive sig?? :o

keeponbucn

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#110 : December 23, 2006, 12:00:00 AM

Keeponbucn, they called me back, and said they were going to print the letter I wrote them. Not sure when, but they said they would send me a copy of the paper when they do. Within a week or so, she said...


let us know man, I'd would love to read what you wrote. thanks,

BUCFAN4LIFE

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#111 : December 23, 2006, 12:26:32 AM

"You can't have it both ways. If you argue that Gruden is responsible for the Super Bowl and NFC South Title in 2005 due to his superior coaching, you can't agrue that he isn't responsible for the poor coaching in 2003, 2004, and 2006."

In addition to that I would argue that it was Kiffen's dominating defense that carried Gruden's mediocre offensive in the seasons this team did have success.

SR with all due respect I seem to recall that McCardell got in a huff because Gruden was writing checks with his mouth that Allen wouldn't back up on paper. The guy had a contract but got pissed off because promisses were made and not kept. Maybe hate was too strong a word but the fact remains, he had a conversation with Gruden and that triggered what followed. Perhaps if Gruden had not said anything ...

And with respect to Jurevicius. Gruden may have loved him but he was in Gruden's dog house his last season with the Bucs. I guess you always hurt the one's you love.

You couldn't be further from the truth or at best you have a pretty bad memory.

After K Mac's good year K mac was worried with only 2 years left on his deal that he would be done after the 2 years and wanted one more new contract before retirement ensued. Gruden said they would get something done to extend him. Allen offered KMac an extension-- the only problem was that KMac came out and said he didn't just want an extension he wanted to be paid as a top 5 WR. Thats why he held out and the Bucs wouldn't budge on him. Do you think K Mac was worth top 5 money??? Not only could we not afford that-- there was no way he was worth it. What really gets lost in all this is K Mac saw the oppotunity with KJ gone and coming off a good year as a chance to hold his team hostage. He did the same thing in JAx when Smith got hurt. K Mac just forgot he was under contract and it cost him a million dollars. And he still isn't making anywhere near top 5 money.

JJ was a cap casualty-- he was cut and then we tried to resign him. He went to Seattle for more money and they cut him as well.

Actually, Keenan didn't want to be paid as a top-5 receiver.  He wanted to be paid as an average #1 WR.  His point was that he was signed as a complimentary guy to KJ, and with KJ's deactivation and later trade, he was promoted to #1 WR and wanted to be paid as such.  He was scheduled to make about $2.5MM, and the average #1 WR salary was about $4.4MM, and that's what he requested.

your right-- I remember it was the top 5 that escalated it so much cause Moss had just signed the monster deal in Oakland. Whats even funnier is he played for the same salary in SD -- had to give a million back -- and when he signed his extension in 05 it was for 3.4mil so he lost a million and broke even while we got a 3rd and 6th and upgraded with Galloway.

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PewterReportSR

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#112 : December 23, 2006, 09:09:33 AM

"You can't have it both ways. If you argue that Gruden is responsible for the Super Bowl and NFC South Title in 2005 due to his superior coaching, you can't agrue that he isn't responsible for the poor coaching in 2003, 2004, and 2006."

In addition to that I would argue that it was Kiffen's dominating defense that carried Gruden's mediocre offensive in the seasons this team did have success.

SR with all due respect I seem to recall that McCardell got in a huff because Gruden was writing checks with his mouth that Allen wouldn't back up on paper. The guy had a contract but got pissed off because promisses were made and not kept. Maybe hate was too strong a word but the fact remains, he had a conversation with Gruden and that triggered what followed. Perhaps if Gruden had not said anything ...

And with respect to Jurevicius. Gruden may have loved him but he was in Gruden's dog house his last season with the Bucs. I guess you always hurt the one's you love.

You couldn't be further from the truth or at best you have a pretty bad memory.

After K Mac's good year K mac was worried with only 2 years left on his deal that he would be done after the 2 years and wanted one more new contract before retirement ensued. Gruden said they would get something done to extend him. Allen offered KMac an extension-- the only problem was that KMac came out and said he didn't just want an extension he wanted to be paid as a top 5 WR. Thats why he held out and the Bucs wouldn't budge on him. Do you think K Mac was worth top 5 money??? Not only could we not afford that-- there was no way he was worth it. What really gets lost in all this is K Mac saw the oppotunity with KJ gone and coming off a good year as a chance to hold his team hostage. He did the same thing in JAx when Smith got hurt. K Mac just forgot he was under contract and it cost him a million dollars. And he still isn't making anywhere near top 5 money.

JJ was a cap casualty-- he was cut and then we tried to resign him. He went to Seattle for more money and they cut him as well.

Actually, Keenan didn't want to be paid as a top-5 receiver.  He wanted to be paid as an average #1 WR.  His point was that he was signed as a complimentary guy to KJ, and with KJ's deactivation and later trade, he was promoted to #1 WR and wanted to be paid as such.  He was scheduled to make about $2.5MM, and the average #1 WR salary was about $4.4MM, and that's what he requested.

What everyone forgets is that McCardell voluntarily signed a four-year deal with a $2 million signing bonus. There was no gun to his head. He AGREED to those terms. He and his agent made a mistake. There were no esclators or triggers in his contract based on performance. McCardell wasn't making chump change. Was he underpaid? Did he outperform his contract? Perhaps after 2003, but what about in 2002 when he missed several games due to injury? Didn't he underperform his contract? The bottom line is that he and his agent agreed to a poor deal that didn't include performance-based incentives or escaltors that would actually reward him for playing better.

Gruden contributed to this mess by saying that he would try to take care of McCardell. The problem is that Gruden isn't the G.M., Allen is, and he's the one in control of the team's salary cap and purse strings.
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