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naplesbuc

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: December 17, 2006, 12:02:57 AM

Sounds like sour grapes to me. 

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/12/17/Bucs/Why_can_t_he_find_a_Q.shtml

"I don't know what Jon wants, and I don't think he knows," King said. "That's probably why he can't find it. The hardest thing is it takes such a special guy to play for him. You almost have to say 'Screw you' to deal with him on a day-to-day basis because he's just so emotional. I think everybody who ever played for him would say at some point they disliked him.

"That's where the problem occurs; because of the combative, ego-driven personality he has. It's like a marriage and the wife gets on your nerves. You don't want to be around him all the time."

karen anderson

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#1 : December 17, 2006, 12:30:19 AM

A very good article & probably VERY true. You buy what everyone else says except King? Everything is totally believable.

karen anderson

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#2 : December 17, 2006, 12:50:09 AM

Never mind--thot he was refering to Shaun King. Then what are the sour grapes?

1sparkybuc

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#3 : December 17, 2006, 06:30:14 AM

Shaun King is a failure and finds comfort in blaming others for his own shortcomings. If he had even half of Gruden's work ethetic he would be a starter in the NFL. He doesn't and he isn't. Shaun King has a SB ring because of Jon Gruden and Brad Johnson, not because he did anything to earn it. You would think he would be grateful to have been along for the ride.

Gruden cut him not once but twice. King resents that. Sour grapes is appropriate.

naplesbuc

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#4 : December 17, 2006, 08:10:16 AM

Gruden knows exactly what he wants, so far he hasn't been able to find it although Brad was very good the first  year and ok the second.

The Qb carousel is a function of injury, cap, etc. and not just the result of Gruden not being able to make up his mind.  King is out of the league now and was a 2nd round pick.  That's a bust by anyone's definition and using him as the main source of two articles is shoddy journalism.

How many games did he start under Gruden?  Was he really under direct Gruden "pressure" much when he was in Tampa?

alldaway

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#5 : December 17, 2006, 07:33:55 AM

I agree with you 100% sparky but King is right on this point:

Quote
I don't know what Jon wants, and I don't think he knows," King said. "That's probably why he can't find it

What does Jon Gruden want to do on offense and what type of QB does he want to lead it? Does he want to focus on a running game sprinkled in with some passing? Or does he want to be pass happy like Reid with a few runs here and there?  He says he wants a mobile QB but does not use many plays to use the mobility of his current starting QB so far that we have seen.  He says he wants a smart QB and that is what he had in Brad.  He says he wants an accurate QB and that is what he had in Griese. He says he wants a QB with a big time arm and that is what he has in Simms.

But if Gruden is expecting to find another Rich Gannon clone he needs to put down his hiking shoes becuase it is not happening.  Jon needs to settle down and stick with a QB even if they have some blemishes to them. 

alldaway

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#6 : December 17, 2006, 08:30:10 AM

The Qb carousel is a function of injury, cap, etc. and not just the result of Gruden not being able to make up his mind. 

The injuries and cap situation have dictated some of the issues at the QB position.  But I strongly, strongly disagree with you that Gruden has no part in this QB carousel.  Gruden has contributed to it and I see an offense going fifty million directions as a result and the hunt for the perfect QB continues.

naplesbuc

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#7 : December 17, 2006, 08:46:24 AM

But I strongly, strongly disagree with you that Gruden has no part in this QB carousel. 


Some of it is related to Gruden but most of it is not.

1) Johnson - Is anyone really going to argue that Gruden should have stuck with Brad after the poor 0-4 start?  I remember most everyone thinking it was time to see what Simms could do.  Of course he was hurt very early in that first game which led to Griese.

2) Griese - As much as I hated his occasional boneheaded turnovers (that usually resulted in points), out of all the QB's under Gruden I think he was the closest match to what Gruden wanted.  Mostly because he was smart and could run the offense.  His arm strength was sufficient.  Too bad he was hurt last season because unlike most I don't believe there was any way he would have been pulled with the team at 5-1 if he wasn't out for the season.  Gruden should get great credit for finding Griese off the scrap pile and getting his career turned around.  Of course he doesn't get it.

3) Simms - A McKay "in your face Gruden" draft pick.  It was obvious he was a terrible pick for the WCO from the beginning.  Despite problems with the center-snap exchange and the inability to call plays, Gruden stuck with him and imo it is he who has made Chris ready to play in the league.  Last year he changed the offense to help him (max protecting to increase rushing yardage and give him more time to throw) - Gruden's inflexibility is a drastically overused cliche.  Gruden made the tough choice in the offseason to let Griese go (a guy he probably was more comfortable with for his offense) and keep Simms.  He was annointed the starter and had an entire offseason to get better from where he left off.  As it turns out Gruden probably should have kept Griese but given how Simms played down the stretch the fan base and media would have cried bloody murder.  Simms awful start and season ending injury were unpredictable events.

4) Gradkowski - Out of all Gruden's QB choices this one now makes the least sense to me.  The guy may yet show himself able to run the WCO but at this point I don't see it.  His only real asset coming out of college, his perceived accuracy, has not been there.  He routinely misses the quick 3 step throws.  His downfield accuracy is as bad as advertised.  If Gruden is fired, it likely will be because he took a huge gamble playing a rookie over an experienced player.  I'm no Rattay fan, but he did have extensive experience running the WCO.

keeponbucn

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#8 : December 17, 2006, 09:47:16 AM

But I strongly, strongly disagree with you that Gruden has no part in this QB carousel.


Some of it is related to Gruden but most of it is not.

1) Johnson - Is anyone really going to argue that Gruden should have stuck with Brad after the poor 0-4 start? I remember most everyone thinking it was time to see what Simms could do. Of course he was hurt very early in that first game which led to Griese.

2) Griese - As much as I hated his occasional boneheaded turnovers (that usually resulted in points), out of all the QB's under Gruden I think he was the closest match to what Gruden wanted. Mostly because he was smart and could run the offense. His arm strength was sufficient. Too bad he was hurt last season because unlike most I don't believe there was any way he would have been pulled with the team at 5-1 if he wasn't out for the season. Gruden should get great credit for finding Griese off the scrap pile and getting his career turned around. Of course he doesn't get it.

3) Simms - A McKay "in your face Gruden" draft pick. It was obvious he was a terrible pick for the WCO from the beginning. Despite problems with the center-snap exchange and the inability to call plays, Gruden stuck with him and imo it is he who has made Chris ready to play in the league. Last year he changed the offense to help him (max protecting to increase rushing yardage and give him more time to throw) - Gruden's inflexibility is a drastically overused cliche. Gruden made the tough choice in the offseason to let Griese go (a guy he probably was more comfortable with for his offense) and keep Simms. He was annointed the starter and had an entire offseason to get better from where he left off. As it turns out Gruden probably should have kept Griese but given how Simms played down the stretch the fan base and media would have cried bloody murder. Simms awful start and season ending injury were unpredictable events.

4) Gradkowski - Out of all Gruden's QB choices this one now makes the least sense to me. The guy may yet show himself able to run the WCO but at this point I don't see it. His only real asset coming out of college, his perceived accuracy, has not been there. He routinely misses the quick 3 step throws. His downfield accuracy is as bad as advertised. If Gruden is fired, it likely will be because he took a huge gamble playing a rookie over an experienced player. I'm no Rattay fan, but he did have extensive experience running the WCO.



ADW - how can you say Gruden is mostly to blame for the QB situation? Is it his fault they've been hurt?

Good post naples.

watson

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#9 : December 17, 2006, 10:00:49 AM

Shaun King is a failure and finds comfort in blaming others for his own shortcomings. If he had even half of Gruden's work ethetic he would be a starter in the NFL. He doesn't and he isn't. Shaun King has a SB ring because of Jon Gruden and Brad Johnson, not because he did anything to earn it. You would think he would be grateful to have been along for the ride.

Gruden cut him not once but twice. King resents that. Sour grapes is appropriate.
And what I find even more amazing about this is that he was replaced as the starter before Gruden even arrived in Tampa.  His sour grapes should be directed towards Dungy since he was the coach that replaced him as the starter and then later brought him to Indy and ultimately cut him there.

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

BUCFAN4LIFE

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#10 : December 17, 2006, 10:03:29 AM

The fact that King thinks he can talk is even funnier--- Gruden just wanted him to be a good backup to Brad and he couldn't do that-- Robosack beat him out. And then when King finally gets his start under Gruden he single handedly in one half of football cost them any shot at the Pitt game in 02 and gets benched for Robosack. He then goes to AZ and gets replaced as well after once again he was given the opportunity to start and played like crap. Then makes a shotty Detroit team and can't even stick as the 3rd and gets cut (he got beat out by Dan Orvlosky). Dungy then picks him up and cuts him after the preseason and rather go with just 2 QB's and wait til the third comes off the PUP list (thats gotta tell you something). Now he is with the Las Vegas arena team.

The thing that is sour grapes in this is Booger restructured some last year to get a 3rd QB when Girese went down-- it was rumored they were looking at King again, but went with Rattay instead.

The only other thing that makes this article even more funny and is really the proverbial warning flare to bad journalism-- is the piece was done by Stroud...



naplesbuc

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#11 : December 17, 2006, 10:04:06 AM

The most amazing thing is Stroud uses King as a source in 2 articles in the Sunday rag to try and push his agenda.  I agree that King was a product of the Dungy Bucs era and I hardly even remember him in Pewter under Gruden.

DanTurksGhost

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#12 : December 17, 2006, 11:20:50 AM

In regard to commitment and work ethic, Shaun King is the polar opposite of Jon Gruden.
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