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Magnaccia

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#30 : June 26, 2008, 02:03:18 PM

Wait... so if given the choice of Stoval and Clayton becoming solid #1,2, or 3 WRs on this team or acquiring a big name free agent, you'd take the FA?

Why? lol. You're gonna pay more for someone that may or may not fit your system over two draft picks that work out and can be retained for less than it takes to get an equal FA?

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#31 : June 26, 2008, 02:12:01 PM

Wait... so if given the choice of Stoval and Clayton becoming solid #1,2, or 3 WRs on this team or acquiring a big name free agent, you'd take the FA?

Why? lol. You're gonna pay more for someone that may or may not fit your system over two draft picks that work out and can be retained for less than it takes to get an equal FA?
That's not what was said at all. I said if I had the choice of banking on a draft pick or accquiring a big time WR via FA or a trade, I'd take the latter. Obviously, if I knew in advance that the draftee would go on to be good I'd take the 1st option.

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#32 : June 26, 2008, 02:47:03 PM

The approach the Bucs have taken in free agency is quantity at a fair price over cap hell for a single star player. Simeon Rice had a contract that strangled the franchise for several years. Think how much better off we would have been with Warren Sapp on the roster, and what our record could have been in '06 if we had been able to afford to keep Brian Griese on the team. Rice had 2 sacks that year. How many wins did that translate to? I'm reasonably certain Griese would have managed more than 4 wins.

Some here are too quick to name the flops and ignore the guys who have helped the team. Garner was lost to injury. Whose fault is that? Steussie lost his steroid connection. Who knew? Tim Brown coached Michael Clayton to an outstanding rookie season. Galloway is the only receiver in team history with 3 straight 1,000 yard seasons. Hilliard has been a team leader in third down conversions. Hovan has anchored the DL and been a leader on the D. Every team has hits and misses.

The Bucs have won half of the division titles and a league championship in the last 6 years. The other teams each have won one. I am sure they would happily exchange records with us. They have had the "star" players that draw national media attention. We have the trophies. Bruce Allen and the scouts are building a great foundation for the future of this franchise with the recent drafts. Allen has filled some holes through free agency. They may not win the SB this season, but they will definitely be in the hunt. They will win a game or two in the playoffs. Gruden's teams will dominate the NFC in the very near future.

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#33 : June 26, 2008, 02:55:30 PM

The approach the Bucs have taken in free agency is quantity at a fair price over cap hell for a single star player. Simeon Rice had a contract that strangled the franchise for several years. Think how much better off we would have been with Warren Sapp on the roster, and what our record could have been in '06 if we had been able to afford to keep Brian Griese on the team. Rice had 2 sacks that year. How many wins did that translate to? I'm reasonably certain Griese would have managed more than 4 wins.
Rice's contract wasn't the problem. He was amongst the best at his position for the majority of his deal and he was paid like it. The bigger problem was McFarland, Brad Johnson, etc. being paid based on past performance or unfulfilled potential. With the cap the way it is right now, it is possible to pay a few big free agents while maintaining your core through the draft.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#34 : June 26, 2008, 06:01:15 PM

The approach the Bucs have taken in free agency is quantity at a fair price over cap hell for a single star player. Simeon Rice had a contract that strangled the franchise for several years. Think how much better off we would have been with Warren Sapp on the roster, and what our record could have been in '06 if we had been able to afford to keep Brian Griese on the team. Rice had 2 sacks that year. How many wins did that translate to? I'm reasonably certain Griese would have managed more than 4 wins.
Rice's contract wasn't the problem. He was amongst the best at his position for the majority of his deal and he was paid like it. The bigger problem was McFarland, Brad Johnson, etc. being paid based on past performance or unfulfilled potential. With the cap the way it is right now, it is possible to pay a few big free agents while maintaining your core through the draft.

Rice's contract was not all of the problem but it was the largest and did contribute to the loss of Sapp and Griese. Anyone else that was asked to restructure did so without complaint. Rice refused and I laughed when he was released. The bigger problem was NOT McFarland, Brad Johnson, etc. It was the contracts McKay wrote for Keyshawn Johnson and Rice that kept us in cap hell. The best move Gruden ever made was passing McKay off on a division rival. I laughed out loud again when I saw what McKay gave his rookie QB. Bruce Allen has this franchise on the right track. The Bucs can now afford to keep or acquire any player they really want because they have a GM that knows how to manage the cap. McKay only got in the NFL because of his dad, and the only cap he understands, is one he puts on his head.

If we had been out of cap hell one year earlier, I would have been in favor of making a bid for Drew Brees. In hindsight, Randy Moss would have been a great pickup but I seriously doubt Al Davis would ever make a deal with Bruce Allen. He has to consider him the worst kind of traitor for joining Gruden in Tampa.

Mediocre free agents were too often overpaid in this offseason. The Bucs got value for their money when they signed Bruce Allen and he has returned the favor. The team now has talent, depth, and money to spend. It's a new experience for this franchise.

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#35 : June 26, 2008, 07:10:05 PM

The buccs draft history you know as well or better than I FRG - and FA efforts are darn near as impressive over this history of the franchise. If you want to blame it on GMs I would think you are oversimplifying - but clearly Rich and his staff, and Gruden and his coaching group were not on the same page. Gruden and Allen don't get it all right - that is for certain. But at least they give the appearance of working towards the same goal in unison - of a like mind - unlike RM and Gruden.

No excuse at this point - we will see how this partnership works out. So far a lot spent on getting an oline. Team still has needs, WR, RB, UT and QB. It would be nice to stumble over an elite qb at some point - it has been 30 years - it is time...

Wait, Bucs stumbled over some elite qbs in thier time, they just didn't keep them and build around them.

No way for the buccs to have known if the qbs were any good then - bc they got the snap and ran for their lives - and no qb looks good doing that..

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant



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#36 : June 26, 2008, 10:49:24 PM

The skill players on this offense scare no one but our own fans.

They scare the hell outta me, that for sure!!!

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#37 : June 27, 2008, 03:39:48 AM

The Bucs are ignored by the national  media and attacked by the local media. They are disrespected by their own "fans". I really hope everyone takes this team lightly and gets their butts handed to them. I am confident the ground game will be in the top 10 this season. They finished 11th with a career backup RB featured and the turnstile Wade at C. Graham won't be the starter and the C position has been upgraded. The OL will give our QBs better protection and allow them to complete more passes. The passing game will at the very least be in the top half of the league.

Teams will learn to respect this offense even if nobody else does.



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#38 : June 27, 2008, 08:28:17 AM

that seems about right....   6th worst offense playbook...       take away a couple deep balls to galloway, and we'd have the worst.    our offensehas nothing, because we dont invest in the offensive talent. 

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#39 : June 27, 2008, 08:56:44 AM

The skill players on this offense scare no one but our own fans.

They scare the hell outta me, that for sure!!!
I'm not even sure if you can call some of them "skilled".

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#40 : June 27, 2008, 09:26:54 AM

The buccs draft history you know as well or better than I FRG - and FA efforts are darn near as impressive over this history of the franchise. If you want to blame it on GMs I would think you are oversimplifying - but clearly Rich and his staff, and Gruden and his coaching group were not on the same page. Gruden and Allen don't get it all right - that is for certain. But at least they give the appearance of working towards the same goal in unison - of a like mind - unlike RM and Gruden.

No excuse at this point - we will see how this partnership works out. So far a lot spent on getting an oline. Team still has needs, WR, RB, UT and QB. It would be nice to stumble over an elite qb at some point - it has been 30 years - it is time...

Wait, Bucs stumbled over some elite qbs in thier time, they just didn't keep them and build around them.

No way for the buccs to have known if the qbs were any good then - bc they got the snap and ran for their lives - and no qb looks good doing that..

The bucs not knowing or not caring  does not change the status of the QB.

DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0

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#41 : June 27, 2008, 10:03:33 AM






No way for the buccs to have known if the qbs were any good then -
Will you be saying that in 5 years about Luke McCown because he wasn't given a fair shot in camp this year to win the job? The odds are against it, but the reality is we won't know what he's got unless he's given a shot.

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#42 : June 27, 2008, 10:23:14 AM

The buccs draft history you know as well or better than I FRG - and FA efforts are darn near as impressive over this history of the franchise. If you want to blame it on GMs I would think you are oversimplifying - but clearly Rich and his staff, and Gruden and his coaching group were not on the same page. Gruden and Allen don't get it all right - that is for certain. But at least they give the appearance of working towards the same goal in unison - of a like mind - unlike RM and Gruden.

No excuse at this point - we will see how this partnership works out. So far a lot spent on getting an oline. Team still has needs, WR, RB, UT and QB. It would be nice to stumble over an elite qb at some point - it has been 30 years - it is time...

Wait, Bucs stumbled over some elite qbs in thier time, they just didn't keep them and build around them.

No way for the buccs to have known if the qbs were any good then - bc they got the snap and ran for their lives - and no qb looks good doing that..
The Bucs didn't know Doug Williams was good?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#43 : June 27, 2008, 12:58:54 PM

FRG - go ahead and name the good buccaneer qbs - make the list.  It is awfully short for 30 years

Abuccs - I have stated repeatedly on both boards - the positions should be open each and every year.  Prohibitive farorites don't exist on the bucc's team.  i don't see the All Pros yet.  Maybe as they continue to progress maybe not.  Yes a team does have to give a guy a shot - WHEN HE EARNS IT.  And if he does and the coach doesn't give him an opportunity it is time for a new coach.  I don't see that yet.  And just having better physical skills doesn't get it.  We will see.  Frankly I hope McCown outplays both Garcia and Griese and is starting opening day.  Garcia is one of the top 3-4 buccaneer qbs of all time - which does have a certain relativity to being the tallest of the midgets...

And Rowdie - not saying the buccs didn't care - for for many years our favorite was inept is so many positions no one could impress.  Right now three qbs were in place that have been somewhat effective imvho - Doug Williams, Brad Johnson and Jeff Garcia.  None were better than NFL average for the buccaneers - a combination of their ability and the talent around them let them reach that level here.  The rest - either weren't all that, or played at the wrong time.  Best of the rest - Steve Deberg... just saying...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#44 : June 27, 2008, 01:31:17 PM

And Rowdie - not saying the buccs didn't care - for for many years our favorite was inept is so many positions no one could impress. Right now three qbs were in place that have been somewhat effective imvho - Doug Williams, Brad Johnson and Jeff Garcia. None were better than NFL average for the buccaneers - a combination of their ability and the talent around them let them reach that level here. The rest - either weren't all that, or played at the wrong time. Best of the rest - Steve Deberg... just saying...
I've got to think he was including Steve Young as one they didn't keep and build around.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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