Official too little too late for Gruden thread.

[bradentonian]

It's more than 1 game. The looks have been there ALL season. Simms and Gradkowski couldn't deliver. Rattay did today. He may not next week but he did today.

Doesn't matter if the looks are there if your players can't execute.  Why continue to bang away with the same play calls and the same players, only to see the same failures over and over again?  Either change the plays, or change the players.  Otherwise you won't get different results.

[naplesbuc]

bradentonian, this isn't a controlled experiment.  It's much easier to find players to make easy plays (like catching wide open TD passes) then to find plays that are easier to make when these players can't even do the basics?

[bradentonian]

bradentonian, this isn't a controlled experiment. It's much easier to find players to make easy plays (like catching wide open TD passes) then to find plays that are easier to make when these players can't even do the basics?

I don't disagree, but as I said, you have to either change the plays or the players.  If Gruden wants to stick with his plays, then why not bench the players who can't execute?  Clayton should have been benched long ago.  We should have seen Rattay earlier.  Etc., etc.  If you continue calling the same plays with the same players, why would you expect anything different than the same results?

Not sure what some of these other posters think happened today but I feel this team got a couple breaks and got back into this game. They didnt play for their coach who came in with a terrible gameplan, they wanted to win this game for each other. There is a lot of pride on this team and they want to win. But IMO the coach the game today was in spite of their coach not because of their coach.

Im still a Gruden fan. As you see the plays are on the field..just need a QB to run the offense. His ONLY mistake of the season was Gradkowski. He is seeing that right now I HOPE

[naplesbuc]

I don't disagree, but as I said, you have to either change the plays or the players.  If Gruden wants to stick with his plays, then why not bench the players who can't execute?  Clayton should have been benched long ago.  We should have seen Rattay earlier.  Etc., etc.  If you continue calling the same plays with the same players, why would you expect anything different than the same results?

Agree 100%.  Gruden deserves a lot of criticism for staying with Gradkowski so long and even for letting him backup as a rookie in the first place.

[bucpimpin]

Like I said. I think new blood is essential for this team and its future. I dont see Gruden:
1) Changing offensive philosophy (installing Shotgun, and adapting play-calling around Simms strengths)
2) Changing coaches (OL, ST, LB (Barry's gone) coaches)
3) Adding possible OC (Muir out)

Another thought is: How much gas does Kiffen have in the tank?

Either give Gruden a 3 year extension or let him go at seasons end.

[caradoc]

Like I said. I think new blood is essential for this team and its future. I dont see Gruden:
1) Changing offensive philosophy (installing Shotgun, and adapting play-calling around Simms strengths)
2) Changing coaches (OL, ST, LB (Barry's gone) coaches)
3) Adding possible OC (Muir out)

Another thought is: How much gas does Kiffen have in the tank?

Either give Gruden a 3 year extension or let him go at seasons end.

1) the system isn't going to change and I still never get an answer when I ask: WHAT ARE SIMMS' "STRENGTHS"?  Use the singular, for deep ball, he has nothing else.
2) The Pos coaches will change he's well aware that's a big part of why Dungy's in Indy
3) Unlikely, but not impossible.

I vote extension.

[bucpimpin]

Like I said. I think new blood is essential for this team and its future. I dont see Gruden:
1) Changing offensive philosophy (installing Shotgun, and adapting play-calling around Simms strengths)
2) Changing coaches (OL, ST, LB (Barry's gone) coaches)
3) Adding possible OC (Muir out)

Another thought is: How much gas does Kiffen have in the tank?

Either give Gruden a 3 year extension or let him go at seasons end.

1) the system isn't going to change and I still never get an answer when I ask: WHAT ARE SIMMS' "STRENGTHS"?  Use the singular, for deep ball, he has nothing else.
2) The Pos coaches will change he's well aware that's a big part of why Dungy's in Indy
3) Unlikely, but not impossible.

I vote extension.

Simms strengths are the 5,7 step drops and the shotgun. His deep ball touch and arm strength are one of the leagues best (per Chris Mortenson)
Based on Chris's performance this year I am not for keeping him but Gruden isnt her for the long haul (if at all) so he cant draft a QB, and he needs more than just an off season to develope another QB into his system. Simms will be the guy but will have a bigger salary.

I like SR's idea of Garcia but his stock / price is going up every week. He will demand at least a 3 yr deal.

[caradoc]

So what you just said is, "yes cara, Simms only has one strength, the deep ball".

I'm curious where you get the idea that shotgun is a strength, considering that:

1) he's never thrown a pass from that formation in the pros
2) Shotgun is a formation, not a play, so how can it be called a strength anyway?  Can you say "QB soanso's strength is the I formation"?

[Larry Brackins]

It was nice to see Chucky break out the fist pump. Reminded me of the days of old.

[bucpimpin]

Like I said. I think new blood is essential for this team and its future. I dont see Gruden:
1) Changing offensive philosophy (installing Shotgun, and adapting play-calling around Simms strengths)
2) Changing coaches (OL, ST, LB (Barry's gone) coaches)
3) Adding possible OC (Muir out)

Another thought is: How much gas does Kiffen have in the tank?

Either give Gruden a 3 year extension or let him go at seasons end.

1) the system isn't going to change and I still never get an answer when I ask: WHAT ARE SIMMS' "STRENGTHS"?  Use the singular, for deep ball, he has nothing else.
2) The Pos coaches will change he's well aware that's a big part of why Dungy's in Indy
3) Unlikely, but not impossible.

I vote extension.

Simms strengths are the 5,7 step drops and the shotgun. His deep ball touch and arm strength are one of the leagues best (per Chris Mortenson)
Based on Chris's performance this year I am not for keeping him but Gruden isnt her for the long haul (if at all) so he cant draft a QB, and he needs more than just an off season to develope another QB into his system. Simms will be the guy but will have a bigger salary.

I like SR's idea of Garcia but his stock / price is going up every week. He will demand at least a 3 yr deal.

?

I said his strenghts are 5 and 7 step drops.. as we all have seen (less batted balls) and the shotgun (see UT game tape) 1)Deep ball touch 2) Arm strength.  That is 5 seperate strengths 

Not sure what some of these other posters think happened today but I feel this team got a couple breaks and got back into this game. They didnt play for their coach who came in with a terrible gameplan, they wanted to win this game for each other. There is a lot of pride on this team and they want to win. But IMO the coach the game today was in spite of their coach not because of their coach.

No...listen to the Barbers/Brooks/Hovans.....they LOVE the guy.

Isnt it ironic its the Anthony Davis types that are disgruntled? Look at how much he did for us yesterday...Thanks AD for the false starts and drive killers.

My opinion I fault Gruden for Grads but history tells us even the best Coaches make personel mistakes every once in a while.

No I will not join the "blood thirsty" Bucs  fans that are out for a new coach every 5 years...thanks for running Dungy out BTW. However I do need to see improvement  next year or we Gruden supporters wont have the answers anymore