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dbucfan

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« : July 06, 2008, 02:39:28 PM »

I always find folks writings about the validity of religions interesting.  The topic always comes back to a belief in God(s) or Creators, and those who don't believe argue it is bc intellecutally they feel it can be proven the documents of a religion can be "disproven". 

That normally brings a discussion of belief or faith into the discussion - and that is depicted as intellectually lacking.  For some it is the answer, it is the proof and it does explain life after death, and belief in God(s), Angels, Saints... depending upon one's ability to understand or believe in the occurrence of otherwise inexplicable events we think we know have occured over time.

And while I have enjoyed reading the offerings on this thread - that is as far as I will venture into this topic.  I truly value my own beliefs, but don't care to force them upon anyone else who doesn't care to listen to them, and certainly even in this venue - I believe such conversations could be misconstrued too easily - unintentionally or intentionally.  Thanks for the thoughts and insights.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

John Galt?

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« #1 : July 03, 2008, 02:37:38 PM »


I'm quite fond of breasts myself....those attached to my wife of course!

I guess that is something so odd to me; men loving breasts?!

Is it because we don't have them, or most of us was born with one in our mouth, or what?

My wife always asks this question, to my reply, "I dunno."

My reply would have been, "Not sure, I need to do more research"


Balls Out

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« #2 : July 03, 2008, 02:25:16 PM »

I'm quite fond of breasts myself....those attached to my wife of course!

I guess that is something so odd to me; men loving breasts?!

Is it because we don't have them, or most of us was born with one in our mouth, or what?

My wife always asks this question, to my reply, "I dunno."

Because getting to the breast is a prelude to ......... Its a family site so I'll go no further.

Actually there's a biological reason for it....back in our primitive days, men looked at breasts as the womens capacity to feed his offspring, obviously the bigger the better, that's where our "attraction" comes from.

Women have their eyes on some of our body parts as well....calves comes to mind, again for biological reasons. The primitive woman looked at calves to guage the strength of men, the bigger the calves the stronger the man and therefore could provide the best protection for her and the kids.

"Some birds can only have a back archer if you flick the starter button - spocking the G spot doesn't work on all of them"

John Galt?

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« #3 : July 06, 2008, 02:19:17 PM »

I find the idea of an "intelligent" Christian amusing. All religions are based on ignorance and superstition. No intelligent person would be gullible enough to swallow life after death and the absurd rewards promised.

Come on. That's ridiculous. I know alot of christians who I consider to be very intelligent.

Name two.

Gallileo, Newton, Georges Lemaître (Catholic Preist and author of the Big Bang Theory), Blase Pascal, Johannes Kepler, Nicolaus Copernicus...Oh you only wanted 2.


I find the idea of an "intelligent" Christian amusing. All religions are based on ignorance and superstition. No intelligent person would be gullible enough to swallow life after death and the absurd rewards promised.

I find the posting of numerous absolutes (all religions, no person, every...etc) lacking in intelligence.  Intelligent people recognize that there are always exceptions.


1sparkybuc

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« #4 : July 06, 2008, 02:00:11 PM »

Come on guys, the "name two" thing was a joke. I know several who are intelligent. Again, it's a joke. People are raised to accept the general beliefs of the society they are born in. It's brainwashing plain and simple. We are not encouraged to question our elders. Most societies tend to punish those that do. Intelligent people cover every element from fanatical to atheistic. Religion is a factor in our social life and forces some people to hide their true feelings and go along with the crowd. George Carlin and Bill Maher didn't and doesn't. People have discovered they are not alone in their doubts. They have found others they can relate to who get up on a stage and voice their opinion.  These people still have a sense of right and wrong but guilt is no longer a weapon that can be used against them.

ufojoe

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« #5 : July 03, 2008, 11:36:43 AM »

How about voting for a man who appears to be senile? Or refuses to admit the truth?



Is his memory that bad? If so, it's scary that he might get into the WH.

McCain: "If Saddam and his sons don't leave Iraq in 48 hours."

Lieberman: "Uh, John. They're dead. We're attacking Iran now."


spartan

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« #6 : July 03, 2008, 11:50:03 AM »

Spartan, I personally stick to the Christians because those are the ones I have had encounters with my entire life. Hearing stuff like, "Do you know Jesus?" "Do you want to be saved" Do you know you can't be happy without accepting Jesus?" And on and on. It started when I was in my late teens and continued into my adulthood. I still get it from my sister. I can't possibly have the same peace in my life as she does because I don't have Jesus.

Mormons irritate the crap out of me, but I don't hate them for it and neither to I consider that every Christian practices their faith in that manner.

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As far as ignorance or lack of critical thinking? Yes, I think that people who believe that a man lived inside of a whale or that a woman was magically impregnated or a whole bunch of dead people rose from their graves in Jerusalem are lacking the ability to question things and examine them in an intelligent manner. Not all Christians believe that stuff but many do a I have met plenty of them. And I'm not talking about them saying, "It might be true." I'm talking about them saying, "It's in the Bible so it has to be true."

Yet you believe, or at least consider the existance of aliens, Bigfoot, Ghosts etc and so forth. To me that is just different sides of the same coin. There are people who think such beliefs ridiculous. That does not make you ignorant or lacking in thought, just means you and they have a different view on life.

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As far as your experience proving that there is a God to you? That's a unique opinion. Usually people who have that type of experience lose their fear if death but it's not
enough to prove that there is some personal God or rule maker. Just that we are more than a physical body.

Believe it or not, there are people out there who believe in life after death but are Atheists. I worked with one of them when I was in Tampa.

Two people can look at the same set of evidence but arrive at different conclusions. It does not mean either one is wrong, just that their thought process is influenced by a different set of experiences.



ufojoe

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« #7 : July 03, 2008, 01:09:48 PM »

Spartan, I personally stick to the Christians because those are the ones I have had encounters with my entire life. Hearing stuff like, "Do you know Jesus?" "Do you want to be saved" Do you know you can't be happy without accepting Jesus?" And on and on. It started when I was in my late teens and continued into my adulthood. I still get it from my sister. I can't possibly have the same peace in my life as she does because I don't have Jesus.

Mormons irritate the crap out of me, but I don't hate them for it and neither to I consider that every Christian practices their faith in that manner.

I don't hate anybody. And I'm fully aware that many Christians aren't so up front like that. But a
lot feel that it's their duty to witness to you so it's no surprise that we see a lot of that.


As far as ignorance or lack of critical thinking? Yes, I think that people who believe that a man lived inside of a whale or that a woman was magically impregnated or a whole bunch of dead people rose from their graves in Jerusalem are lacking the ability to question things and examine them in an intelligent manner. Not all Christians believe that stuff but many do a I have met plenty of them. And I'm not talking about them saying, "It might be true." I'm talking about them saying, "It's in the Bible so it has to be true."

Yet you believe, or at least consider the existance of aliens, Bigfoot, Ghosts etc and so forth.
To me that is just different sides of the same coin. There are people who think such beliefs
ridiculous. That does not make you ignorant or lacking in thought, just means you and they
have a different view on life.

Not even close to the same thing.

My view that there's interesting evidence to look at may be wrong. I am willing to let the science
lead the way. It's a very slow process since most scientists won't touch these subjects with a ten
foot pole. It's taboo. Do the Christians who take the Bible literally accept that they may be wrong?
Do they accept that Jesus may have just been a man? Do they ever question the logistics of
the Biblical account of Noah? Was that even feasible? Or do they just say, "Bible says it. It's
true?" And remember, we're talking about the millions who take the Bible as the word of God
and take it literally.

That's the difference. ZERO critical thinking.

Their blind faith won't allow them to consider looking at any of that stuff with a scientific eye.
Science is not the be all end all but it shouldn't be shunned. Eventually, science will help
prove or disprove a theory. Tons of religious people rely on faith and shun science. That's
ignorance, IMO.

Sorry if I'm going to come across as a jerk here but...

It's not even close to the same thing. I've explained this numerous times and you say the same thing.
I don't know if you're doing it on purpose or you repeatedly fail to grasp my position on the subject.
I'll try one more time.

The only reason I even consider the ET/Bigfoot stuff is because I have looked at the evidence and feel
that further study is warranted. I didn't just read it in a book that features stories that are a few
thousand years old. Most of this stuff I didn't have an opinion on until I started looking at the
evidence. And after looking at the evidence, I wanted to see more evidence before I came to anything
resembling a conclusion. That's where I am now.

That's a far cry from "The Bible says so so I believe it." That's not  critical thinking and shows zero
skepticism. It wreaks of brainwashing from an early age. "Well, I was taught such and such at an
early age and I never questioned it." It may not be intentional brainwashing but the effect is
the same.

How can you compare the Jonah in whale story to a UFO case that has: witnesses that we can
cross examine, radar hits on multiple types of radars, trace evidence and in some cases, video
evidence? I never say "alien" when a UFO case pops up. But some people do. I avoid those
people. They "believers" and don't use one ounce of critical thinking or skepticism. And
once again, I'm not claiming ET or any other origin for the UFO cases that appear to
be physical in nature. We can look at the evidence and go from there.

Show me a witness that we can talk to that was around when Jesus was supposedly born.
Show me a witness that saw Jonah in the whale. Show me a witness to Moses making
the Red sea split apart. And then let's talk to them and see if they appear credible and
if there are other witnesses to back up their story. And let's see if they have tried
to make money on their story. Since all of the Bible stories are thousands of years old,
we can't do that. Obviously. So the comparison you make is not one that should
even come into play here.

Show me some physical evidence that we can examine that would suggest that those
events, or something interesting, happened. The only thing that I know of is the Shroud.
That's still being studied. Maybe it will help the Christians. Maybe it won't. Too early.

Show me where any radar evidence or footprint (Bigfoot) evidence has been found.
I'm not saying I have proof of anything. But there's plenty of evidence to examine
and peruse. What one makes of that evidence is another story. It's nice finally
having a scientists (Jeffrey Meldrum) look at the Bigfoot evidence and give an
educated opinion on what it represents. He feels that they left over Miocene
Apes.

All of the stuff I talk about can be studied scientifically on some level. But the Bible
stuff? Jonah? Holy Spirit impregnating a woman? Moses and the sea? How do we
examine data to back up any of those stories? That's the difference.

If you want to compare the Biblical true believers to the UFO true believers, I'll
go along with that. No critical thinking from either group.

I don't think either of us are in those groups.

ufojoe

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« #8 : July 02, 2008, 01:00:56 PM »


Or for a Muslim?


Buccobruce

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« #9 : July 02, 2008, 01:04:14 PM »

Depends...

You cant vote on someone based on thier religion alone. thats what i believe.




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« #10 : July 02, 2008, 01:05:17 PM »

Atheist is my choice. Because I feel that religion has no place in public office but only in the privacy of their lives.
Didn't Bush claim that god told him to attack Iraq? That kind of stuff worries me when a politician depends on his or her faith to make decisions.

mjs020294

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« #11 : July 02, 2008, 01:05:49 PM »

I would prefer an Atheist.


Morgan

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« #12 : July 02, 2008, 01:07:01 PM »

If Atheists were enemies responsible for chopping off the heads of journalists, flying airplanes into WTC and the Pentagon and planting IEDs with the intention of killing fellow Americans, I sure wouldn't vote for a President who identify with the Atheists.

John Galt?

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« #13 : July 02, 2008, 01:11:51 PM »

Which is more fiscally conservative? Which has the better resume'.  Military service is an advantage, I would prefer the CiC of the military to have a little first hand experience. What are their healthcare plans?

If you asked me who's bar-b-que I would go to, I'd say the atheists, because I like BBQ pork.  But for President, probably the Muslim because Muslims have strict rules against usery so he might be more inclined to reduce the National Debt.


Morgan

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« #14 : July 02, 2008, 01:14:28 PM »

"Fight and slay the Christians" (Koran 9:5)

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