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rowdie

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#15 : December 18, 2006, 12:28:00 PM

I just keep hitting replay hoping one of these times the kid will actually turn it up into the hole that's right there, but he always seems to be running the wrong way.

Mikey isn't making his own holes, he's just seeing the ones that are there for him.

That said, there's certainly penetration from the left too often. Tru could eliminate a false start to two. 

Like I noted, they're not consistant. Still I think there are plenty of times the RB isn't taking advantage of the holes that are there.

DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0

bradentonian

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#16 : December 18, 2006, 12:28:07 PM

People act like stacking the box is something new. The box was stacked last year and Caddy ran.

The box is stacked vs LT, the box is stacked vs JAX and so on. "

The box is stacked" is an excuse when you can't run but when you want to run you have to run into just those situations.

I agree.

Personally I am not too hard on Carnell as some are as he has no where to go most of the time this year. It does not help that a toss play will not accomplish much with Urlacher and Briggs patroling from sideline to sideline. The Bears defense is too fast to even attempt any running play to the outside.

At this point the evidence is overwhelming in that the o-line has to take the blame for the poor run blocking displayed this year.


Agree that the toss was questionable, especially with backup DTs in the middle.  I really thought we would attack them more.
And agree with Dal on the 8-9 man in the box argument.  Most of Caddy's longest runs came against a stacked box.


bradentonian

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#17 : December 18, 2006, 12:29:51 PM


Larry Johnson, Frank Gore, they run because they have guys like will shields, larry allen who will knock people off the ball. You can run it up Larry allens a$$ for 3 yards! You can't run it up sean mahans butt for nada and you have 2 rookies on the right side.


Isn't this why we spent a 1st round pick on a OG?


rowdie

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#18 : December 18, 2006, 12:31:22 PM

I don't think Caddy was put in a position to be an effective runner this season.  With the QB play, LT probably wouldn't have been able to score!

An elite RB would make things happen occasionally.  He can't catch and he isn't doing much else, so yes Caddy is under scrutiny next year.

Bern't no he wouldn't! How could he??? Yeah Larry Johnson did it with Huard, they have a probowl offensive line MJS.

Again for the 1 millionth time! You cannot run against an 8-9 man front with a stalemate at teh line of scrimmage. Larry Johnson, Frank Gore, they run because they have guys like will shields, larry allen who will knock people off the ball. You can run it up Larry allens a$$ for 3 yards! You can't run it up sean mahans butt for nada and you have 2 rookies on the right side.

You cannot run the ball when 8-9 people are in the box and you don't win one on one matchups at the LOS, you just cant, the discussion is ridiculous...

There are two rooks on the right side, but I've been watching them crush people lately. Then they line up with two TE's out there a few time this last game and just erased everyone with in ten years of the los on that side. It looked like great college blocking.

DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0

cvillebucfan

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#19 : December 18, 2006, 12:34:57 PM

Let me get this straight real quick here haha, we have 2 rookies on the right side (one playine well, the other doing fine) and we have sean mahan who couldn't block the sun, we have a center that does next to nothing and people get on cadillac williams about our running game.

As I said previously, when we face 8 men fronts we are facing 8 men committed to stoping the run, playing zero coverage. For those that don't know that is no deep safety(s). No one can run the ball effectively if...

1. you cannot keep a defense honest
2. you dont have at least one elite player on the OL like a Will shields, Larry Allen...

Do you think that Larry Johnson could face an NFL defense and have 8-9 people totally committed without any worry of a pass being thrown on them could not stop him, no.

Sure teams play 8 man fronts but those fronts are looks from the defense, window dressing. You have 8 in the box, you could still play a cover 3, 2 deep man, whatever you wanted. We face 8-9 defenders keying on one player, playing zero coverage because there is zero threat against the pass...



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#20 : December 18, 2006, 12:37:09 PM

Guys, I see the comment "Gruden didnt scare anyone this year with his gameplanning."

The reason for that is he has to put Grads in position to be sucsessful by running a sheltered offense that overprotects him. When you have a rookie QB in an offense that can only give him 2 reads then go straight to the checkdown, and combine that with an offensive line that needs an extra TE or two to block 4 guys, and you have yourself a stale and dead offense.

cvillebucfan

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#21 : December 18, 2006, 12:37:39 PM


Larry Johnson, Frank Gore, they run because they have guys like will shields, larry allen who will knock people off the ball. You can run it up Larry allens a$$ for 3 yards! You can't run it up sean mahans butt for nada and you have 2 rookies on the right side.


Isn't this why we spent a 1st round pick on a OG?

Well sure it is! Are you ready to throw Joseph in there and compare him to a Larry Allen or a Will Shields 14 games into his NFL Career? He looks great and will be a great addition, he is a rookie.



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rowdie

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#22 : December 18, 2006, 12:41:41 PM

Let me get this straight real quick here haha, we have 2 rookies on the right side (one playine well, the other doing fine) and we have sean mahan who couldn't block the sun, we have a center that does next to nothing and people get on cadillac williams about our running game.



Yep.  Why should he get a pass.  Dispite all the issues you pointed out, none of which anyone has dissagreed with in this thread, there are times when that oline gets the job done yet the play goes no where.


DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0

bradentonian

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#23 : December 18, 2006, 12:42:27 PM


Larry Johnson, Frank Gore, they run because they have guys like will shields, larry allen who will knock people off the ball. You can run it up Larry allens a$$ for 3 yards! You can't run it up sean mahans butt for nada and you have 2 rookies on the right side.


Isn't this why we spent a 1st round pick on a OG?

Well sure it is! Are you ready to throw Joseph in there and compare him to a Larry Allen or a Will Shields 14 games into his NFL Career? He looks great and will be a great addition, he is a rookie.

The Saints are running just fine behind an OL that is as young as ours, and part of that has been solid play from their 4th round rookie OG.  The reasoning behind burning a 1st rounder on an OG was that he was supposed to have been dominant out of the gate.  Look at the impact Logan Mankins had in his rookie year.


naplesbuc

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#24 : December 18, 2006, 12:43:24 PM

The Saints have multiple vertical threats and an MVP caliber QB.  Forget the o-line comparisons.

cvillebucfan

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#25 : December 18, 2006, 12:45:17 PM


Larry Johnson, Frank Gore, they run because they have guys like will shields, larry allen who will knock people off the ball. You can run it up Larry allens a$$ for 3 yards! You can't run it up sean mahans butt for nada and you have 2 rookies on the right side.


Isn't this why we spent a 1st round pick on a OG?

Well sure it is! Are you ready to throw Joseph in there and compare him to a Larry Allen or a Will Shields 14 games into his NFL Career? He looks great and will be a great addition, he is a rookie.

The Saints are running just fine behind an OL that is as young as ours, and part of that has been solid play from their 4th round rookie OG.  The reasoning behind burning a 1st rounder on an OG was that he was supposed to have been dominant out of the gate.  Look at the impact Logan Mankins had in his rookie year.

The saints have a QB that might break an NFL passing record............wonder if defenses worry about that???



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cvillebucfan

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#26 : December 18, 2006, 12:45:51 PM

The Saints have multiple vertical threats and an MVP caliber QB. Forget the o-line comparisons.

Thank you Naples!!!! Blantantly obvious, unreal comparison.........



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rowdie

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#27 : December 18, 2006, 12:47:01 PM

Is there ever a good time to take a shot at the caddy on these boards?



Not sure what you mean...but it's hard to evaluate the young talent we have on offense when the QB is struggling.  Caddy needs to produce more, but it will help him if we can throw the ball a bit.

I mean, is it ok to question Caddy or will the board erupt in discust that you even began to question what is clearly one of the best RBs in the game today.  Looks like there's a little of that, but not too much.  Not as bad as say wondering if .... well better not mention it. 

There are plays that are flat shut down. That said, I still contend there are plays when the kid should be doing more and if he's really the type of player that many are claiming, dispite the issues with the rest of the O he should have made more things happen.

DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0

keeponbucn

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#28 : December 18, 2006, 12:47:44 PM

The fact was given during the game, the Bucs have the youngest o-line in the NFL. Caddy is the only threat in this offense and teams are keying on him and only him.

Dal brings up last year but it was different, there was at least the threat of a deep ball so the stack isn't stacked as you might think.

bradentonian

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#29 : December 18, 2006, 12:49:44 PM


Larry Johnson, Frank Gore, they run because they have guys like will shields, larry allen who will knock people off the ball. You can run it up Larry allens a$$ for 3 yards! You can't run it up sean mahans butt for nada and you have 2 rookies on the right side.


Isn't this why we spent a 1st round pick on a OG?

Well sure it is! Are you ready to throw Joseph in there and compare him to a Larry Allen or a Will Shields 14 games into his NFL Career? He looks great and will be a great addition, he is a rookie.

The Saints are running just fine behind an OL that is as young as ours, and part of that has been solid play from their 4th round rookie OG. The reasoning behind burning a 1st rounder on an OG was that he was supposed to have been dominant out of the gate. Look at the impact Logan Mankins had in his rookie year.

The saints have a QB that might break an NFL passing record............wonder if defenses worry about that???

Of course, but I'm not talking about total defense.  I'm just talking about LOS performance of their OL players on run plays.

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