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alldaway

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#45 : December 20, 2006, 07:56:21 AM

I still contend the oline block just fine on plenty of plays and the caddy doesn't take advantage of it like he would if he was a great as soooooo many folks contend he is.

I am sorry but you must not be watching many games.  I mean if you think Mahan is just fine as a blocker compared to Buenning take off the shades.

dalbuc

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#46 : December 20, 2006, 08:58:42 AM


Disagree. For one, the OL WAS blocking better. Buenning was healthy, and more effective as a rookie. Holes WERE there in 2005. Davis has probably stayed about the same, atleast as far as run blocking. Mahan and Wade, are Mahan and Wade. Joseph has been good, not as good a rookie as Buenning was but the ONLY bright spot on teh OL outside of the passblocking as a whole (which is slightly improved).

The run blocking has gotten worse, whihc was really my point. Imean basically this line has swapped Dan for Devin and Walker for True. Walker gives you nothing in the run game anways so that could be Walker for Diet Pepsi machine and it wouldn't matter. Devin should > Dan but he's been far from it thus far. The big problem is the slide that Davis has taken in his run blocking and the whole unit just isn't very good at much of anything in run blocking. They're sort of mediocre in short yardage just pound guys off the line, they're not very good pulling, not very good getting to the second level. There's a lot of issues here.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Bucsvp

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#47 : December 20, 2006, 11:23:42 AM

Quote
You need to cut back on the koolaid.


Bullshlt, it's not even worth the time to argue with a person that has no clue what they're talking about. It's absurd that you come on here and bring up the same lame, non-logical, untrue bullshlt about Gruden or the team. You know when someone posts this garbage what knowledge they bring to the table and at that point you make your decision. I've made mine and your not worth it.

You're not knowledgeable and you're not a fan. You're a cheerleader. You treat this team like it was your kids Pop Warner team and anybody that criticise it as if they were attacking your kids. If you seriously think that Gruden is capable of building a team through the draft then you're deluded.
Bashing a regular in your first 40-50 posts isn't a good idea...
I'm not afraid. What's he going to do complain to the management?
Let me elaborate on the cheerleader analogy. A fan, a real fan would be pissed off to see a superbowl contending franchise be dismantled the way this one was. A cheerleader just keeps waving the pompoms like all is well bucville. This board needs more fans and less cheerleaders.



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#48 : December 20, 2006, 11:27:41 AM

Quote
You need to cut back on the koolaid.


Bullshlt, it's not even worth the time to argue with a person that has no clue what they're talking about. It's absurd that you come on here and bring up the same lame, non-logical, untrue bullshlt about Gruden or the team. You know when someone posts this garbage what knowledge they bring to the table and at that point you make your decision. I've made mine and your not worth it.

You're not knowledgeable and you're not a fan. You're a cheerleader. You treat this team like it was your kids Pop Warner team and anybody that criticise it as if they were attacking your kids. If you seriously think that Gruden is capable of building a team through the draft then you're deluded.
Bashing a regular in your first 40-50 posts isn't a good idea...
I'm not afraid. What's he going to do complain to the management?
Let me elaborate on the cheerleader analogy. A fan, a real fan would be pissed off to see a superbowl contending franchise be dismantled the way this one was. A cheerleader just keeps waving the pompoms like all is well bucville. This board needs more fans and less cheerleaders.
No, I just mean people will read that as you acting like a big shot.

acacius

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#49 : December 20, 2006, 12:38:09 PM

7 TDs in 28 games is not a good return. If we are going to start winning regularly Caddy needs to step it up a hell of a lot.....a TD every forth game isn't going to hack it.

I'm not sure that I agree that this is an entirely fair criticism.  For all the talk about how Gruden hates him, Alstott has taken a LOT of goalline carries from Caddy, at least when compared with the team's total amount of goalline carries.  (Which admittedly hasn't been all that great.)

rowdie

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#50 : December 20, 2006, 02:53:56 PM

I still contend the oline block just fine on plenty of plays and the caddy doesn't take advantage of it like he would if he was a great as soooooo many folks contend he is.

I am sorry but you must not be watching many games.  I mean if you think Mahan is just fine as a blocker compared to Buenning take off the shades.

Well that's not it, I watch all the games. 

Where did I say anything about mahan never mind compare him to Buenning.  Are you sure you quoted the right post?  Seems to me there's plenty to chat about by just sticking with what I accually posted instead of making stuff up in your head so you could argue the point.

If the kid was as great as so many contend, he'd have done better with the carries he's recieved. Buddy isn't finding the wholes the oline makes.  I suggest you remove the shades as it were when it comes to just how great a rb Caddy is at this point.

DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0

alldaway

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#51 : December 20, 2006, 06:44:31 PM

I still contend the oline block just fine on plenty of plays and the caddy doesn't take advantage of it like he would if he was a great as soooooo many folks contend he is.

I am sorry but you must not be watching many games.  I mean if you think Mahan is just fine as a blocker compared to Buenning take off the shades.

Well that's not it, I watch all the games. 

Where did I say anything about mahan never mind compare him to Buenning.  Are you sure you quoted the right post?  Seems to me there's plenty to chat about by just sticking with what I accually posted instead of making stuff up in your head so you could argue the point.

If the kid was as great as so many contend, he'd have done better with the carries he's recieved. Buddy isn't finding the wholes the oline makes.  I suggest you remove the shades as it were when it comes to just how great a rb Caddy is at this point.

Where did I say Carnell was great? Are you sure you quoted the right post? Seems to me there is plenty to chat about by just sticking with what I actually posted instead of making stuff up in your head so you could argue your point.

The kid has had only 225 carries this year. The o-line isn't making holes.  The reason I brought up Buenning was becuase Buenning was the one making holes before being put on IR.  Unles you want to argue that Mahan makes holes I suggest you bring more to this discussion.  I suggest you open your eyes to see the o-line has not been run blocking all that well this year.

shall555

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#52 : December 20, 2006, 07:44:05 PM

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I'm not afraid. What's he going to do complain to the management?
Let me elaborate on the cheerleader analogy. A fan, a real fan would be pissed off to see a superbowl contending franchise be dismantled the way this one was. A cheerleader just keeps waving the pompoms like all is well bucville. This board needs more fans and less cheerleaders.
Quote

A real fan would know that the Bucs Super Bowl contending window was from 1997-2003. This team wasn't dismantled because Gruden wanted his own "team". This team was dismantled because of a thing called 'salary cap hell', which is what paid for our Lombardi. Every dominant team rises and falls, so others can take their place, that's why its called "parity". Only Goobers think you can be a Super Bowl contender for 10 years in the salary cap era.

You accuse everyone in here of being Kool Aid drinkers, but you need to look in the mirror. You're not drinking Kool Aid, you're drinking Haterade.

dalbuc

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#53 : December 21, 2006, 09:12:09 AM


A real fan would know that the Bucs Super Bowl contending window was from 1997-2003.


A real fan could have some crazy reason to limit it to that range. 2004, #5 defense. 2005, #1 defense. Those are Super Bowl level defenses. Dungy got fired after having the #6 and #12 defense in 2000 and 2001...why are those part of the window but 2004 and 2005 aren't?

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.



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#54 : December 22, 2006, 03:58:48 AM

dal its not that people limit it to that range just so they can argue their support for Gruden. Realistically that was the window. The realists (like SR and JF) will give Gruden only the blame he deserves, which falls well short of demanding his head but still demands improvements. And others will slam Gruden and Allen, create conpsiracies, create full blown lies, and hide truths to support their agendas. Hell PR just said in theihr last article that Tenabaum warned Parcells not to take this job because the window was closing. draft picks had been wasted. draft picks had been traded. future cap room had been tied up in guys whos sutures with the team were soon in jeopardy. I know youve swaye dyour thinking to the belief that Gruden needs to be fired, but dont mention those defensive ranks in 2004 and 2005 without mentioning how much cap room was tie dup in the defense and also on dead cap room from McKay signings.

rowdie

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#55 : December 22, 2006, 12:17:17 PM

Where did I say Carnell was great? Are you sure you quoted the right post? Seems to me there is plenty to chat about by just sticking with what I actually posted instead of making stuff up in your head so you could argue your point.

Let me type slowly so that you might follow.  I contend that if carnell was as great as so many folks contend he is he'd have done better with the opertunities afforded him.  You contest, this arguement thus saying carnell is as great as so many people contend he is.   See how that works?

The debate is "Carnell williams is not as great as many people contend he is." You took the negative side = you believe he's as great as the folks contend."

If you don't believe he's that good then get on over to the affirmative side of the discussion where you belong.

Quote
The kid has had only 225 carries this year. The o-line isn't making holes.  The reason I brought up Buenning was becuase Buenning was the one making holes before being put on IR.  Unles you want to argue that Mahan makes holes I suggest you bring more to this discussion.  I suggest you open your eyes to see the o-line has not been run blocking all that well this year.

One more time 'cause it's the holidays,  What the online only makes the whole when alstott gets the ball?  As I've said from the begining, the oline is not good however there are plenty of plays where they make the hole and caddy just doesn't get to it. If he were as great as many people contend, he would have done more with his opertunities.

DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0

alldaway

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#56 : December 22, 2006, 01:20:47 PM

Let me type slowly so that you might follow.  I contend that if carnell was as great as so many folks contend he is he'd have done better with the opertunities afforded him.  You contest, this arguement thus saying carnell is as great as so many people contend he is.   See how that works?

My arguement has been the o-line is not run blocking all that well (starts on page one) but you feel differently. That is why we will have to agree to disagree on this point.

Also I am not following your logic.  If I contest that the o-line is not blocking as good as you think that they are that does not automatically mean I also think Carnell is great.   I think Carnell is not great and the o-line is not blocking as good as you proclaim.  See how that works?

The debate is "Carnell williams is not as great as many people contend he is." You took the negative side = you believe he's as great as the folks contend."

The thread is titled "Why Gruden didn't run more this year". Strike one on your part.

The original thread starter (RB) opened with their first post talking about poor QB play and third and longs. Strike two on your part.

Your first post to me (page one) was that you claim that Carnell is not seeing the holes and the o-line is not as bad in run blocking.  That has nothing to do whether you feel Carnell is great or not.   And then I followed my response to you in that when given the holes (I cited an example the Dallas game) he has shown he could hit those holes but you disagree with my take.   Strike three.

If you don't believe he's that good then get on over to the affirmative side of the discussion where you belong.

I do not believe he is great but if it makes it easier for you to understand then I will let that side of the discussion die.

One more time 'cause it's the holidays,  What the online only makes the whole when alstott gets the ball?  As I've said from the begining, the oline is not good however there are plenty of plays where they make the hole and caddy just doesn't get to it. If he were as great as many people contend, he would have done more with his opertunities.

Alstott showed his agility with that TD run in the Bears game.  But the Bears were caught off guard by what Alstott was able to do. 

Carnell has never been great which is a point that you are stuck on that I do not understand.   Carnell showed last year he could make plays happen even when there was not much to work with.  But I also have to mention that the run blocking last year was superior compared to this year by a large margin.   

Happy Holidays. ;)








RedAlert

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#57 : December 22, 2006, 01:59:09 PM

Alstott showed his agility with that TD run in the Bears game. But the Bears were caught off guard by what Alstott was able to do.

I doubt that. Alstott has played the Bears enough times in his career that he's no longer a surprise, especially to Lovie Smith..


As far as Caddy goes, he gets better as the game gets longer. Problem being, our defense didn't keep us in the games as much as they did last year, rendering Caddy a less viable threat. If we were closer in more games, I submit that this year wouldn't have been as much of a dissapointment for him..

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