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olafberserker

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#15 : July 21, 2008, 12:52:08 PM



As it is, we want everyone to have their rights and express how they feel,


Taken out of context. The right to dress up like a pink elephant and force it upon others as acceptable is the kind of rights I'm talking about. The right to remove the moral fabric from our country, the principles in which it was founded on, and live in a way that is objectable to the majority.


yes, people having rights is a terrible thing ... ::)

whatever, if the kid wants to dress feminine and parade around the school who cares.  it doesn't effect anyone else in that school.  your bigotry is amazing.

ufojoe

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#16 : July 21, 2008, 12:59:10 PM

Brandon's friends then began to tease the two of them about having 'gay babies'.

That kind of stuff is going to happen when you're fifteen. Brandon just wasn't mature enough
to brush it off. Really not his fault, nor the fault of Larry. One teen (Larry) acting out for attention
in an extreme manner. The other (Brandon) too immature to deal with it. Plus, the failure of the
system.

So immaturity explains some of what happened there. How do we explain disgusting posts
such as these?

For the last time Speilburg, God loves everyone, but doesn't condone the act of male on male fudge babies.  

The "victim" is every single heterosexual in the world who by the way, are by large and far the majority.  
Forget the fact that after the first conversation with my child that I then have to explain the "birds and
the bees" to him and explain how feces babies aren't real people at all.

Fudge packing, homosexuality, butt love, is all sin, no matter how you describe it.  


BucsBullsBolts

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#17 : July 21, 2008, 01:13:31 PM

Taken out of context.  The right to dress up like a pink elephant and force it upon others as acceptable is the kind of rights I'm talking about.

How the Hell is somebody ELSE dressing up forcing anything upon YOU??




Quote
The right to remove the moral fabric from our country, the principles in which it was founded on, and live in a way that is objectable to the majority.

When our country was founded it was morally acceptable to keep slaves and not let women vote ...






MrFreakinMiyagi

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#18 : July 21, 2008, 01:21:18 PM

Brandon's friends then began to tease the two of them about having 'gay babies'.

That kind of stuff is going to happen when you're fifteen. Brandon just wasn't mature enough
to brush it off. Really not his fault, nor the fault of Larry. One teen (Larry) acting out for attention
in an extreme manner. The other (Brandon) too immature to deal with it. Plus, the failure of the
system.

So immaturity explains some of what happened there. How do we explain disgusting posts
such as these?

For the last time Speilburg, God loves everyone, but doesn't condone the act of male on male fudge babies. 

The "victim" is every single heterosexual in the world who by the way, are by large and far the majority. 
Forget the fact that after the first conversation with my child that I then have to explain the "birds and
the bees" to him and explain how feces babies aren't real people at all.

Fudge packing, homosexuality, butt love, is all sin, no matter how you describe it. 


WOW..... I must have missed all of those quotes the first time around

Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

BucsBullsBolts

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#19 : July 21, 2008, 01:59:24 PM

Brandon's friends then began to tease the two of them about having 'gay babies'.

That kind of stuff is going to happen when you're fifteen. Brandon just wasn't mature enough
to brush it off. Really not his fault, nor the fault of Larry. One teen (Larry) acting out for attention
in an extreme manner. The other (Brandon) too immature to deal with it. Plus, the failure of the
system.

So immaturity explains some of what happened there. How do we explain disgusting posts
such as these?

For the last time Speilburg, God loves everyone, but doesn't condone the act of male on male fudge babies.  

The "victim" is every single heterosexual in the world who by the way, are by large and far the majority.  
Forget the fact that after the first conversation with my child that I then have to explain the "birds and
the bees" to him and explain how feces babies aren't real people at all.

Fudge packing, homosexuality, butt love, is all sin, no matter how you describe it.  




C'mon, Joe, unless Guru is either Larry or Brandon, there is absolutely no reason for those old quotes to be brought up here.

ufojoe

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#20 : July 21, 2008, 02:01:30 PM

I disagree. BG brought up hate crimes. It's people like him who encourage such hate.

leeroybuc93

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#21 : July 21, 2008, 02:03:44 PM

This seems a clear case of sexual harrassment to me.  King was telling people that he and Brandon were dating and even implied some sort of physical relationship.  To a 14 year old kid in the pressures of middle school, that is not acceptable.  Obviously it would have been better if Brandon had found another way to deal with it, but he was being terrorized by King from the sound of it.  Sounds to me like this was allowed to happen because King was gay and school officials were afraid to act.  This looks like a lot of other school shootings where a kid is getting bullied and he just snaps.  It is, however, different because I highly doubt that King had any idea what he was putting Brandon through.  Most bullies know what they're doing, but this was more emotional bullying.  King was probably too young and immature to understand that this little game for him was a living nightmare for Brandon.  This is what school administators are for, yet they obviously failed here.  

No one here has commented on the obvious question.  When are kids old enough to deal with and understand the complexities of sexual identity?  For straight kids it's pretty simple because that's what most have been around their whole lives.  For a gay kid in this day and age it is a little harder I would bet.  As was said in the article, years ago most gay kids knew they were different but weren't exactly sure how, or what they should do about it.  Now that gays are more represented in the main stream, a gay kid is more likley to know exactly what about him is different because he's not completely in the dark on such issues.  It also should be studied to see what the effects on others are when gay kids come out earlier.  Is the adolescent brain less capable of dealing with that?  I would bet money that it is.  We know that rights we have as adults often times cannot be given to the young because they are not mature enough to deal with them.  That goes for the individual and the group.  This is a good opportunity to explore the effects of sexual identity at younger ages and what it means to development.  

John Galt?

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#22 : July 21, 2008, 02:07:20 PM


This is exactly why I have a problem with gay rights. I found it very interesting that Larry, came from a single parent family.


So it's the gay kids fault he got shot? A lot of kids come from single parent families. Not all of them turn out to be gay. I wonder what the back ground of the murderer is.

Absolutely not. It is the society at large who is at fault for the murder. Had he not been allowed to dress like a girl, then this hate crime would probably never happened. As it is, we want everyone to have their rights and express how they feel, regardless of whether it is morally accepted, and thus problems as this will continue to exist.
I feel horrible for both of these young men and their families; a terrible tragedy. It just goes to show that all we care about in our society today is how we feel. We could care less how it affects the children. GW activists are mostly just looking for attention or a profit.




AAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!! [banghead]

Society's fault??  Society didn't sneak a gun onto campus against all the rules.  Society didn't pull the trigger. (I know that's not what BG intended to mean,  I just cringe every time I read or hear "it's society's fault")

It is Brandon's fault (the shooter) and it is partially the victim's fault for being a bully and pushing his classmate too far.  The only fault society has is allowing people to not be responsible for their actions.

Both kids came from broken homes.  Boo-freakin-hoo.  So did Bill Clinton, Gerald Ford, Thomas Monaghan (Dominos/Detroit Tigers Owner), Larry Ellison (Oracle), Queen Elizabeth I, J.S.Bach, Dante Alighieri, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar and about 5 other prominent Emperors, The Jacksons: Andrew, Stonewall, and Jesse, and thousands of other successful people.  Some people whine about life throwing them lemons, others make lemonaid.

And this wasn't a hate crime, it was a "victimized by a bully" kid seeking revenge.  Should the school system make changes because of this?  Absolutely.  Should these kids be absolved of their behavior and all blame laid on "society"?  Heck NO!  That's the problem, kids think they don't have to be responsible for their behavior.

This isn't a GAY issue, even though that's what Newsweek wants to make it.  It is about a deliquent kid, with a history of vandelism and antisocial behavior, using a coddling school system and their "students rights" rules to be a attention-grabbing bully and another deliquent kid striking back by commiting murder.

Larry wasn't wearing make-up and highheels because he was gay, he was doing it to get attention at other people's expense.  He was humiliating other students because he knew the "It takes a village" officials would back him up and absolve him of responsibility.  All he heard was "it's not his fault, he's gay" or "it's not his fault, he has ADD" or "it's not his fault, he came from a broken home" when he should have been told "you are the only one responsible for your actions and you will suffer the consequences, life isn't fair so get over it and act like a Human".  


 Had he not been allowed to dress like a girl, then this hate crime would probably never happened.

Probably true.  The issue isn't him dressing as a girl, though. It was condoning his attention-grabbing antisocial behavior of which the cross-dressing was just part.  He didn't dress that way because he was gay or felt feminine, he did it because he could break society's rules and get away with it.  That isn't gay, it is antisocial.


Quote from: Newsweek Article
Legally, they couldn't stop him from wearing girls' clothes, according to the California Attorney General's Office, because of a state hate-crime law that prevents gender discrimination.

That is just stupid.  Since when does anti-discrimination law appy to juveniles?  Dress codes and Gender discrimination are two entirely different subjects and should not ever be confused.  He should not be allowed to wear stiletto heels and neither should the girls.  It is a school not a nightclub!  He should have been made to dress appropriately regardless of his sexual preference.  Equality means the same rules for everyone, not special consideration for the attention-needy.

Newsweek wants to make this a "gay" issue because that sells mags.  It isn't.  It is a bully getting shot by his victim.  Some bullies use there fists, Larry used the schools pandering.  Either way it is a kid humiliating someone to compensate for his own self-esteem issues.  The issue ignored here is how a kid can sneek a gun into a class unnoticed.


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#23 : July 21, 2008, 02:25:11 PM

If people would read the article more in depth, Brandon's situation was also effected by the lack of prescence by his father. It said that his father had began a job over 60 miles away and was left all to himself at times. This also had made him drop his GPA from a 3.3 to like 1.7 or something. This caused him to get kicked out of the honors class he was in and forced to began classes with Larry. If his Father had been  there this drop in school might have been advoided.

Both children had came from rough backgrounds. It clearly states it in the article. The point is that many of children today do not understand why being gay is 'ok' in society now. They are against it because it goes against what they were brought up on, their religion, and their own personal views of it. Homosexuality is not natural and we all know that...

The biggest fault to blame here is the lack of action on the school system's part. The teachers and principals just sat back and allowed Larry to act out like this and cause this negative attention on himself. Lets face it, there is good attention and bad attention. This comes down to a psychological aspect.

Take this for example.

You work with this guy across from your cubicle. You see nothing really wrong with him other than the fact that he talks very loud and spreads his trash over into your area. You try to be civil about it and ignore it for a while. Then it just continues on and on where he just has a total lack of respect for anyone around him and it spreads to other areas but yours mainly. You try to confront him about it but he brushes it off and doesnt stop. Then after weeks and weeks of putting up with it, you take the entire office's trash and just dump it on his desk and cubicle as an act of retaliation from all the pent up rage you builded from this situation.

That is probably what Brandon had felt towards Larry. He felt the pressure of peers by being recognized as gay and the sexual harassment involved by it. If your straight and you are called gay, it normally doesnt go over well. So this was the only way Brandon could deal with his problem.

Its not either kids fault for having this pushed that far but it is deffinately some part of the school to blame for not keeping a closer eye on their special student.



Aye, So we cut Clifton Smith?!?!

Set Course for Tampa Bay! Its time we make Bruce Allen a member of Davy Jones Locker!

John Galt?

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#24 : July 21, 2008, 03:14:42 PM

If people would read the article more in depth, Brandon's situation was also effected by the lack of prescence by his father. It said that his father had began a job over 60 miles away and was left all to himself at times. This also had made him drop his GPA from a 3.3 to like 1.7 or something. This caused him to get kicked out of the honors class he was in and forced to began classes with Larry. If his Father had been there this drop in school might have been advoided.

Boo-freakin-hoo.  Daddy's job was a 2 hour drive away.  What a load of carp. We're talking about a 15 year-old not an 8 year old.  At 15, it is time for him to start taking some responsibility and acting like a man.  It isn't like his father was sent to Iraq (and most military kids don't turn into murderers) he had an extra hour drive.  This is just more "like a village" crap.  The kids grades dropped because he was lazy and didn't take responsibility.


Both children had came from rough backgrounds. It clearly states it in the article. The point is that many of children today do not understand why being gay is 'ok' in society now. They are against it because it goes against what they were brought up on, their religion, and their own personal views of it. Homosexuality is not natural and we all know that...

The biggest fault to blame here is the lack of action on the school system's part. The teachers and principals just sat back and allowed Larry to act out like this and cause this negative attention on himself. Lets face it, there is good attention and bad attention. This comes down to a psychological aspect.


No, the bigget fault is the kids themselves.  Next is their parents.  It is the parents responsibility to teach their children respect for others and responsibility for ones actions.  When a kid does well, you reward him, when he is bad you punish him. Instead, when he did bad, they gave him ADHD drugs and said "it's not his fault, he has reactive attachment disorder".

The School is at fault for allowing his shennanigans to disrupt the other students, but by then he was already damaged goods. The school didn't make him that way, his parents started it, and he did nothing to help himself.


Take this for example.

You work with this guy across from your cubicle. You see nothing really wrong with him other than the fact that he talks very loud and spreads his trash over into your area. You try to be civil about it and ignore it for a while. Then it just continues on and on where he just has a total lack of respect for anyone around him and it spreads to other areas but yours mainly. You try to confront him about it but he brushes it off and doesnt stop. Then after weeks and weeks of putting up with it, you take the entire office's trash and just dump it on his desk and cubicle as an act of retaliation from all the pent up rage you builded from this situation.

No, a sane, rational person goes to the manager and asks either to be moved or for the other guy to clean his act up.

That is probably what Brandon had felt towards Larry. He felt the pressure of peers by being recognized as gay and the sexual harassment involved by it. If your straight and you are called gay, it normally doesnt go over well. So this was the only way Brandon could deal with his problem.

Its not either kids fault for having this pushed that far but it is deffinately some part of the school to blame for not keeping a closer eye on their special student.

Horse hockey.  If the kid is that "special" then put him in a "special school" or send him home.  It isn't the schools responsibility to bendover backwards for every "special case".  It is their job to offer the best education to all of those who want it.  Their first responsibility is to the kids that want to learn, not to the distractions.  If a kid is a problem, send him home until he is ready to learn and to take part in society.

The liberal mindset is that society should change and cater to the individual.  It should be the individuals job to figure how to get by in society.


keeponbucn

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#25 : July 21, 2008, 03:21:54 PM

whatever, if the kid wants to dress feminine and parade around the school who cares. it doesn't effect anyone else in that school. your bigotry is amazing.

amazingly I will side partly with Guru but from a different POV.

It's a distraction to other students, period. Kids can't dress in drag just like someone can't wear a costume becuase it distracts other students from learning. It DOES affect other students because of the distraction.

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#26 : July 21, 2008, 03:25:27 PM

Taken out of context.  The right to dress up like a pink elephant and force it upon others as acceptable is the kind of rights I'm talking about.

How the Hell is somebody ELSE dressing up forcing anything upon YOU??


Guru is a little crazy.

School is different, not that it's forcing anything upon other kids but again it's a distraction from learning.

olafberserker

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#27 : July 21, 2008, 03:28:27 PM

whatever, if the kid wants to dress feminine and parade around the school who cares. it doesn't effect anyone else in that school. your bigotry is amazing.

amazingly I will side partly with Guru but from a different POV.

It's a distraction to other students, period. Kids can't dress in drag just like someone can't wear a costume becuase it distracts other students from learning. It DOES affect other students because of the distraction.


There was no discussion of the distraction from learning.

keeponbucn

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#28 : July 21, 2008, 03:37:18 PM

There was no discussion of the distraction from learning.

There doesn't have to be because it is a distraction from learning. Dressing in drag can't be allowed in school, it's a costume and should be banned like any other costume. I don't care about guys in drag or gays, they can do what they want but school is for learning.

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#29 : July 21, 2008, 03:40:31 PM

This is just another case for why children should be forced to wear a school uniform to prevent these types of incidents from occuring again. If the kid didnt have to chance to express himself by what he was wearing then maybe this behavior could have been deterred from causing an uprising by the other students (Brandon.)



Aye, So we cut Clifton Smith?!?!

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