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bucsbum

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: July 22, 2008, 10:11:07 AM

With Hovan and Sims playing DT at the same time it would give the Bucs 2 strong run stoppers. Also with Sims strength at pushing the OL back into the QB it would force QB take a deeper drop on pass plays giving Adams more room to work and get around the corner for a sack.

I for one would like the coaches to take a harder look at 2 big guys in the middle. Stuffing the run and forcing more third and longs.

Feel Real Good

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#1 : July 22, 2008, 10:25:22 AM

I just hope one of the 300+ lb DTs (Sims and Moore) can step up. I don't want to go another season with Hovan and Haye.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

acacius

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#2 : July 22, 2008, 10:31:45 AM

I'm a bit at a loss to think of anything that Sims has shown that would suggest he's capable of being the starting UT for this team.  It takes more than size to make someone a good player.

JC510

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#3 : July 22, 2008, 10:40:15 AM

Haye is a great, not good, great UT. People just can't overlook his draft status and how he was acquired. If he was a 1st round pick half the stadium would be wearing his jersey. 

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#4 : July 22, 2008, 10:44:53 AM

Haye is a great, not good, great UT. People just can't overlook his draft status and how he was acquired. If he was a 1st round pick half the stadium would be wearing his jersey.
He's a system UT like Cory Redding and Raheem Brock most of the rest of the league wouldn't have the same use for.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

benchwarmer69

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#5 : July 22, 2008, 10:50:17 AM

With Hovan and Sims playing DT at the same time it would give the Bucs 2 strong run stoppers.

I haven't seen anything from either of them that I really like  :-. Hovan is "ok" but seems not to get much of a push off when battling linemen. Sims isn't quite starter material as of yet. If they were to play that position by commitee, I suppose I would be for it though. Having fresh runstoppers throughout the game is a major boost for any teams Defense. But they will most likely do something to that tune anyway. Imo Hovan hasen't done anything spectacular to keep the starting position, but IS the best option for now. I expected more when he was brought in.


CeriousBuc

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#6 : July 22, 2008, 10:51:14 AM

Haye is a great, not good, great UT. People just can't overlook his draft status and how he was acquired. If he was a 1st round pick half the stadium would be wearing his jersey.

Great? There haven't been too many great under tackles. The last great UT just retired. Haye is a good UT, but he doesn't creat the same Havoc by collasping the pocket like Sapp did, nor will he put up double digit sacks at the position.

JC510

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#7 : July 22, 2008, 10:56:40 AM

Haye is a great, not good, great UT. People just can't overlook his draft status and how he was acquired. If he was a 1st round pick half the stadium would be wearing his jersey.
He's a system UT like Cory Redding and Raheem Brock most of the rest of the league wouldn't have the same use for.

For 4-3 DTs Haye was #1 in tackles, #2 in solo tackles, tied for #6 in sacks (just 2 behind Tommie Harris who was #2).

Redding and Brock COMBINED for 68 tackles, 3.5 sacks.
Haye had 68 tackles, 6 sacks.

Good comparison.

JC510

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#8 : July 22, 2008, 10:57:26 AM

Haye is a great, not good, great UT. People just can't overlook his draft status and how he was acquired. If he was a 1st round pick half the stadium would be wearing his jersey.

Great? There haven't been too many great under tackles. The last great UT just retired. Haye is a good UT, but he doesn't creat the same Havoc by collasping the pocket like Sapp did, nor will he put up double digit sacks at the position.

That's your problem, judging him against one of the top 3 DTs in NFL history.

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#9 : July 22, 2008, 11:02:25 AM

Haye is a great, not good, great UT. People just can't overlook his draft status and how he was acquired. If he was a 1st round pick half the stadium would be wearing his jersey.
He's a system UT like Cory Redding and Raheem Brock most of the rest of the league wouldn't have the same use for.

For 4-3 DTs Haye was #1 in tackles, #2 in solo tackles, tied for #6 in sacks (just 2 behind Tommie Harris who was #2).

Redding and Brock COMBINED for 68 tackles, 3.5 sacks.
Haye had 68 tackles, 6 sacks.

Good comparison.
Sapp had 41 tackles when he won Defensive Player of the Year in 1999. Tackles are NOT how you evaluate linemen.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Badabing

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#10 : July 22, 2008, 11:23:48 AM

I want to bring JEREMIAH TROTTER back in and see if we can make him a defensive tackle.

CeriousBuc

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#11 : July 22, 2008, 11:31:10 AM

Haye is a great, not good, great UT. People just can't overlook his draft status and how he was acquired. If he was a 1st round pick half the stadium would be wearing his jersey.

Great? There haven't been too many great under tackles. The last great UT just retired. Haye is a good UT, but he doesn't creat the same Havoc by collasping the pocket like Sapp did, nor will he put up double digit sacks at the position.

That's your problem, judging him against one of the top 3 DTs in NFL history.

That's not my problem, that happens to be my point. The title Great should be reserved for just that, Great players. Haye is good, not great. Haynesworth and Harris are Really Good, but not great yet. No, great should be reserved for the very best, like Sapp.

When Haye starts bringing pressure on a consistant basis and begins registering double digit sacks then we can start debating his 'greatness'. Until then he's just a good DT. As a UT he's somewhat questionable really. The system requires that he create pressure and force errant passes moreso than racking up tackles as a run stopper. Kudos to him for that, but getting into the backfield is a priority for his position.

JC510

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#12 : July 22, 2008, 11:31:30 AM

Haye is a great, not good, great UT. People just can't overlook his draft status and how he was acquired. If he was a 1st round pick half the stadium would be wearing his jersey.
He's a system UT like Cory Redding and Raheem Brock most of the rest of the league wouldn't have the same use for.

For 4-3 DTs Haye was #1 in tackles, #2 in solo tackles, tied for #6 in sacks (just 2 behind Tommie Harris who was #2).

Redding and Brock COMBINED for 68 tackles, 3.5 sacks.
Haye had 68 tackles, 6 sacks.

Good comparison.
Sapp had 41 tackles when he won Defensive Player of the Year in 1999. Tackles are NOT how you evaluate linemen.

If you a guy has the most tackles for a 4-3 DT, don't you think he's doing something right? Like I don't know, maybe shedding blocks and tackling the RB for a minimal gain?

Badabing

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#13 : July 22, 2008, 11:33:43 AM

yea jc510 is right here...Haye is a good player.  I'm not saying I would give him a extension just yet.  Rather see if he can duplicate those numbers, but I definetely think he should start.  haha Sims can mix in, but Haye should get the majority of snaps

CeriousBuc

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#14 : July 22, 2008, 11:35:50 AM

yea jc510 is right here...Haye is a good player. I'm not saying I would give him a extension just yet. Rather see if he can duplicate those numbers, but I definetely think he should start. haha Sims can mix in, but Haye should get the majority of snaps

So you're saying Haye is a Great player? That's what JC is saying. Haye is a good DT, but Great? I think people toss that description around too often and too lightly.
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