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1sparkybuc

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#30 : July 25, 2008, 09:29:27 AM

i hate to beat a horse like it has as many lives as a cat, but.........  this notion that "everybody" hates bush is just a subject for debate.  there are a bunch of folks, maybe even half of our popuation that would rather have him than either of the current candidates.  this fictitious "we", "everybody", and "they" argument that every democrat surrogate pours over the air waves is just lunacy.  when you have a presdent that gets no credit for anything positive, all the blame for everything negative (after all, "it starts at the top" is a powerful scapegoating tactic for non-thinkers), and mix it with difficult times - the looney fringe of the opposing side gets more air time than it really deserves.

i know, i know, it's bush's fault whack job extremist flew into our buildings, it's bush's fault a lot of americans "qualified" for sub prime mortgages, it's bush's fault american business's opt for cheap labor in other country's because our unions would rather have an excuse than solve a problem, it's bush's fault his tax breaks are a bad idea but obama's "tax relief" package of $600 is better than the $1000 or so qualifying families currently receive... just makes perfect sense except for that whole, crazy mathematics part that is just too difficult to scrutinize, therefore, we won't talk about it. 

2006 IRS Report shows the upper 10% of income earners pay 70% of the existing tax pool and the lower 50% pay just under 3% - it only makes sense for obama to penalize the upper 10% further because they are evil for being successful and its their obligation to share the wealth by raising corporate tax (going over 50%), Soc Sec (no cap), Capital Gains (doubled at least), FICA - stack federal mandated healthcare on top of that and it will be the end of the marginal small business, also known as the backbone of this country.

so all you "change" worshippers who think "anything" is better than 8 more years of blah, blah, blah - i hope you have truly examined the options and understand that the Carter era of 70% taxes on the wealthy, energy crisis, 18% interest, etc... was not the best of times.

someone who really cares about their grandchildren explain to me how having that generation fall under the burden of big gov't programs are the benefactor of this "change" and "hope".  i'm dying to see what i'm missing here because i've run a small business over the last 8 years and while challenging and expensive, it has been possible.  if the proposed obama economic model is deployed, i don't see how or why folks will be able to chase that dream or maintain it. 

i'm pushing my son to take course work in community organizing...  to helll with law, med, or engineering school.


Pure horsefeathers, but thanks for the laughs.

Ironphist

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#31 : July 25, 2008, 09:48:54 AM

ok, let's assume from your corner of the world i'm wrong on every count - that's a place where you will feel comfy and strong...  instead of a 3rd grade response, how about presenting some refuting evidence?

i mean "pure horsefeathers" is a lot like "change", "hope", etc...  where's the substance?  "because i said so" is probably not going to cut it in international negotiations.

but keep posting the one liners - that's the path to helping those that don't agree with "you", "they", and "everybody" understand your position.

MrFreakinMiyagi

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#32 : July 25, 2008, 10:05:27 AM

ok, let's assume from your corner of the world i'm wrong on every count - that's a place where you will feel comfy and strong... instead of a 3rd grade response, how about presenting some refuting evidence?

i mean "pure horsefeathers" is a lot like "change", "hope", etc... where's the substance? "because i said so" is probably not going to cut it in international negotiations.

but keep posting the one liners - that's the path to helping those that don't agree with "you", "they", and "everybody" understand your position.

It's useless, Phist.

He's just another supporter of future President Hussein Obama that hasn't the first clue regarding the man's policies.

Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

Ironphist

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#33 : July 25, 2008, 10:24:26 AM

i give obama credit - i've never seen someone that stands for nothing appeal to this many people.  i don't even like mccain, but i'm voting for him because he has a record, he's fairly predictable in the center, and has no problem sticking to his convictions whether popular or not.  that's a leader.  not perfect by any stretch, but there's a compass he tries to follow.  the other guy rolls with the polls and will do/say anything to anybody to win support - i don't think he's evil, i just think he's expedient and typical.  definitely nothing special, but you'd never know it based on the media love affair...

i want the guy to say "i believe in 'X', whether you like it or not - that's where i stand"...  i can get on board with that, but i'm guessing the fluff stuff sells better.

1sparkybuc

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#34 : July 25, 2008, 11:53:46 AM

I have already stated my opinion of John McCain. I respect him, but at his age he is not going to come up with anything new. Iraq has sucked the life out of our military and he is in no hurry to end our presence there. A military victory is just not possible. It's Viet Nam in the desert. All we we are doing is providing targets for whoever wants to shoot at us.

Obama at least feels withdrawal is a priority and is young enough to have some exposure to new ideas. With him there is hope and recognition that we need a change of direction. His reception on his world tour has demonstrated his abilities to communicate with other cultures. He's not just another old white guy (like me). He has inspired young people and minorities to get involved and at least register to vote. John Kennedy had that effect on people. They joined the peace corps and became involved in local politics. Obama's biggest contribution just might be his ability to make people want to participate.

Obama hasn't been around long enough to be part of the problem. In my view, he's our only hope at the possibility of a solution.

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#35 : July 25, 2008, 12:47:40 PM

now that is a solid argument!  that has logic behind the decision, not just another talking point retread.  i really respect you 1spark - you and i are going to cancel each other out and i'm glad to see the reason behind the favor.

see... i'm not opposed to obama in all honesty.  i don't like what he's saying, but i have a su**CENSORED**ion he's pandering to his base and watching him move to the middle was a sign that he's feeling a sense of power beyond the lunatic fringe.  he has a lot to offer in the sense of world appeal. i don't know what that means to my tax concerns, but it can't be all bad.

this is going to be the election of my lifetime - a crapload of federal judges to seat, probably 3 SCOTUS nominations to confirm, and the next 25 years of governing philosophy weighs in the balance.  i'm glad to see a voter with reasons even if they are short term views.  an obama presidency sends this country into a very left leaning direction which has never worked here.  it will be interesting to see it play out.

BucsBullsBolts

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#36 : July 25, 2008, 12:58:51 PM

i want the guy to say "i believe in 'X', whether you like it or not - that's where i stand"... 

The problem with that is that's been the stance of the guy who's been in there for the last four years and a lot people may be looking for a change ... and Obama's campaign has been smart enough to jump all over that ...... I think I may end up tossing a coin in the voting booth.

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#37 : July 25, 2008, 04:08:45 PM


I'm impressed with the PR and maintaining some civility.  Not sure why, but, the St. Pete Times blog comments section gets really heated sometimes:

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2008/07/obamas-turning.html?cid=123832026#comment-123832026









1sparkybuc

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#38 : July 25, 2008, 07:29:04 PM

now that is a solid argument!  that has logic behind the decision, not just another talking point retread.  i really respect you 1spark - you and i are going to cancel each other out and i'm glad to see the reason behind the favor.

see... i'm not opposed to obama in all honesty.  i don't like what he's saying, but i have a su**CENSORED**ion he's pandering to his base and watching him move to the middle was a sign that he's feeling a sense of power beyond the lunatic fringe.  he has a lot to offer in the sense of world appeal. i don't know what that means to my tax concerns, but it can't be all bad.

this is going to be the election of my lifetime - a crapload of federal judges to seat, probably 3 SCOTUS nominations to confirm, and the next 25 years of governing philosophy weighs in the balance.  i'm glad to see a voter with reasons even if they are short term views.  an obama presidency sends this country into a very left leaning direction which has never worked here.  it will be interesting to see it play out.

That is a classy response and much appreciated.
I don't consider my views short term. My children and grandchildren will be effected by what happens now for many years.

If Obama was the republican candidate and McCain was the democrat, Obama would still get my vote for the same reasons I stated earlier. America needs a different face than what the world is used to.

MrFreakinMiyagi

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#39 : July 25, 2008, 08:02:29 PM

now that is a solid argument! that has logic behind the decision, not just another talking point retread. i really respect you 1spark - you and i are going to cancel each other out and i'm glad to see the reason behind the favor.

see... i'm not opposed to obama in all honesty. i don't like what he's saying, but i have a su**CENSORED**ion he's pandering to his base and watching him move to the middle was a sign that he's feeling a sense of power beyond the lunatic fringe. he has a lot to offer in the sense of world appeal. i don't know what that means to my tax concerns, but it can't be all bad.

this is going to be the election of my lifetime - a crapload of federal judges to seat, probably 3 SCOTUS nominations to confirm, and the next 25 years of governing philosophy weighs in the balance. i'm glad to see a voter with reasons even if they are short term views. an obama presidency sends this country into a very left leaning direction which has never worked here. it will be interesting to see it play out.

That is a classy response and much appreciated.
I don't consider my views short term. My children and grandchildren will be effected by what happens now for many years.

If Obama was the republican candidate and McCain was the democrat, Obama would still get my vote for the same reasons I stated earlier. America needs a different face than what the world is used to.
Exactly.....

Who cares about the man's policies?

Change!!

Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM



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#40 : July 25, 2008, 11:41:32 PM

I guess I would see things differently then some here.  You really have to ask yourself how long it will take for Obama to really truly withdraw troops.  IMO the difference between Vietnam, and Iraq is, the media doesn't hold as much sway as it did in Vietnam.  You can call the war whatever you want, that is what you have decided.  But truth is Obama hasn't really got an easy way out of withdrawing.  His stance on Iraq keeps changing honestly: http://www.americablog.com/2007/10/obama-reworking-answer-on-remaining-in.html This link shows where he isn't sure that he can have all troops out by the time his first term is over...
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/04/17/clinton-and-obama-lock-in-iraq-positions-during-debate.html
Quote
Both said they would begin withdrawals of U.S. troops soon after taking office and would move quickly to end the war.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/22/AR2008072202942.html

Here he is quoted as seeing progress, when all this time he has constantly bashed it that it was a complete loss.  There is another interesting tidbit to encompass the blowing in the wind "change" that Obama does...

Quote
While a diminished U.S. force under his presidency would continue to protect U.S. personnel, target terrorists and provide training, he said, it would be up to Baghdad to consolidate the victory by "setting up a government that is working for the people."
 

Very interesting indeed.  That is some accomplishment, to go from adamentely stating the war is all but lost, to this??  That is some change, eh?  

Some also still have not cited his accomplishments as a US senator, the very question that Chris Mathews asked.  I too would like to know what his plans for change are and what he has accomplished as a US senator.  Other then changing his mind that is the only change that can be believed in the man IMO.

Progress has been made and continues to be made with the surge.  To the point that we may not even have to rely on Obama withdrawing troops, for his sake he is both damned to his statements before, and better hope that Bush gets it done, because if there is any kind of level of troops left, he is not going to withdraw them in the droves like people think, and they are not coming home, but rather being redeployed to Afghanistan.

Morgan

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#41 : July 26, 2008, 12:14:48 AM

I've not been following the news lately. I heard about recent snafu by Obama where he said he was on the finance committee. Can someone explain how exactly a candidate makes this kind of mistake. Does he just read whatever his speech writers put on paper/teleprompter without regard to the facts? 



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#42 : July 26, 2008, 12:17:33 AM

One certainly has to wonder about that.  What is interesting is if anyone really listen to him, you really don't get any idea as to what he really wants to do.  Almost sounds like when John Kerry always had a plan but never really fully disclosed it.

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#43 : July 26, 2008, 03:42:05 AM

agree - Obama's speeches are empty.

Morgan

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#44 : July 26, 2008, 04:20:27 AM

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=177449&title=obama-quest-berlin-speech

Daily Show - much better than watching the real news.
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