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flyinbuc

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#15 : December 19, 2006, 09:00:04 AM

Love the response SR. John Romano complains that Grudens acft is getting old but it is JR negative reporting that is getting stale. Bring up something new JR not just a rehash of the usual ill thought out diatribe that you wrote without thinking.  Bring up something constructive put some thought into it.  How can this SOB continue to cover the bucs if Gru returns? Here's hoping he doesnt.

BucsGuru

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#16 : December 19, 2006, 10:27:51 AM

I will leave my comment pointed in one direction, and that was Sunday's game in Chicago.  If we have been strapped and plagued by bad luck, injuries, cap woes, etc, so be it.  But it is imperative to utilize the player pool on hand.  If a win is not to be achieved, at least let us be competitive.  Sunday was competitive IMO, even had we lost the game by 2 TD'S! 
My frustration comes into play when it APPEARS that the team has quit based on a QB decision, or so it would seem after the insertion of Rattay?  I for one being anti-Gruden have taken the time to step back and evaluate where I was coming from.  After doing so, I feel like I understand some mistakes on my part, but still see where many fans that are pro-Gruden need to do the same thing and step back.  I will never win the battle when I say that I too was once very excited about the Jon Gruden Era.  But after all the smoke had settled and we have three losing seasons out of five, with this last season being one of the worst in Bucs history, one has to ask themselves if it isn't time for a change?  I will agree that the media has gotten out of hand with some comments in the Tampa area.  But look no further than the comments made by the commentators on Sunday.  They too agreed that this team has went south in a big way, and they see no bright spots in the immediate future based on the many holes we have to fill on offense and especially defense.  Then Rattay comes in and we here them say nothing more?  I don't believe we are that far away from being competitive, but I will go on the record and to say that Gruden MUST bring in an OC, or at least someone who can give him better direction when it comes to player decisions.  Too much power makes one have tunnel vision to say the least.

dalbuc

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#17 : December 19, 2006, 10:31:55 AM


It's either ignorance or agenda, folks. Since the salary cap is such a huge part of NFL life these days, reporters and columnists should have a working understanding of how it works, how flexible it can be and how restrictive it can be. Apparently a lot of reporters that cover the Buccaneers don't know this because the words "salary cap" rarely show up in stories explaining why certain players aren't in Tampa anymore. Shame on them for not knowing. It's part of their job!


Making excuses is part of their jobs? Ahhh, now i see the problem.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Shag

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#18 : December 19, 2006, 10:37:56 AM

Thomas Jones got a 4 year/10M contract with a 3.5M signing bonus. We gave Charlie Garner a 6 year/20M contract with a 3.7M bonus.

alldaway

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#19 : December 19, 2006, 10:39:23 AM

Thomas Jones got a 4 year/10M contract with a 3.5M signing bonus. We gave Charlie Garner a 6 year/20M contract with a 3.7M bonus.

Garner later on took a paycut. 

The Bears turned around and took Benson in the top five of the draft which entails +$10 mil in signins bonus alone for Benson.

Shag

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#20 : December 19, 2006, 10:43:06 AM


Garner later on took a paycut. 

The Bears turned around and took Benson in the top five of the draft which entails +$10 mil in signins bonus alone for Benson.

It just shows we had the money, but Gruden wanted a different player. I still don't like to think about that one.

alldaway

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#21 : December 19, 2006, 10:47:31 AM


Garner later on took a paycut. 

The Bears turned around and took Benson in the top five of the draft which entails +$10 mil in signins bonus alone for Benson.

It just shows we had the money, but Gruden wanted a different player. I still don't like to think about that one.

I do not agree with that.  Rich McKay/Bruce Allen did not make an effort to re-sign Jones during the season/early off season when it was the best time to strike.  Jones left shortly after midnight with little oppurtunity to match.  Garner was the next option in my opinion hence why he was pursued.

Depsite accquiring Jones the Bears went out and drafted Benson.  Jones looks like will be the odd man out in Chicago once more becuase Benson is being paid too much to be a bench warmer or a role player. 




DanTurksGhost

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#22 : December 19, 2006, 10:50:33 AM

It just shows we had the money, but Gruden wanted a different player. I still don't like to think about that one.

It takes two to tango. Money or not, Jones wanted more than the Bucs wanted to pay without first gauging his market value. Teams do that all the time. Heck, McKay did it here with Ronde Barber, so I'm not going to lose sleep over a guy who wanted to be a featured back and signed a deal exactly 60 minutes into free agency. I was down on Jones a bit after he fumbled the ball away in a critical situation when he got his first real chance to impress.

Meh. All coaches make mistakes. Dozens of them every season. Even Saint Tony made a bunch of mistakes, but now that the Bucs have posted an awful season people are digging up his long dead Tampa Bay head coaching corpse.

alldaway

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#23 : December 19, 2006, 10:53:51 AM

The reason McKay probably did not extend Jones' contract the minute he traded for him was becuase he wanted to let Jones hit the market and gauge his value.  Bruce followed through with that plan Mckay had in place (just like Booger situation).  Was it a mistake on Bruce's part? In my opinion no.  McKay's strategy made sound sense (eg Barber) so I can see why Bruce followed it.




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#24 : December 19, 2006, 11:00:37 AM

I will leave my comment pointed in one direction, and that was Sunday's game in Chicago. If we have been strapped and plagued by bad luck, injuries, cap woes, etc, so be it. But it is imperative to utilize the player pool on hand. If a win is not to be achieved, at least let us be competitive. Sunday was competitive IMO, even had we lost the game by 2 TD'S!
My frustration comes into play when it APPEARS that the team has quit based on a QB decision, or so it would seem after the insertion of Rattay? I for one being anti-Gruden have taken the time to step back and evaluate where I was coming from. After doing so, I feel like I understand some mistakes on my part, but still see where many fans that are pro-Gruden need to do the same thing and step back. I will never win the battle when I say that I too was once very excited about the Jon Gruden Era. But after all the smoke had settled and we have three losing seasons out of five, with this last season being one of the worst in Bucs history, one has to ask themselves if it isn't time for a change? I will agree that the media has gotten out of hand with some comments in the Tampa area. But look no further than the comments made by the commentators on Sunday. They too agreed that this team has went south in a big way, and they see no bright spots in the immediate future based on the many holes we have to fill on offense and especially defense. Then Rattay comes in and we here them say nothing more? I don't believe we are that far away from being competitive, but I will go on the record and to say that Gruden MUST bring in an OC, or at least someone who can give him better direction when it comes to player decisions. Too much power makes one have tunnel vision to say the least.

 I must say that I agree totally, good post !

ZenBuc

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#25 : December 19, 2006, 11:02:33 AM

Why are the media and some fans STILL talking about Thomas Jones? Who gives a flying ****??! It's old news. Jones was still largely unproven. Instead of overpaying on hype and potential(see: Booger McFarland) the Bucs wanted to see what Jones' value was beforehand(see: Ronde Barber). Jones didn't have to jump on Chicago's offer, he could have waited to see what Tampa would put on the table, but he chose to bolt. What's the damn mystery?? Regardless, we have Caddillac now, who is a fine back. Why not talk about how guys like Hovan were retained? Or Galloway? Would anyone trade Galloway for Keyshawn right now?? But that would be talking about actual good decisions....now we can't have that...

dalbuc

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#26 : December 19, 2006, 11:06:22 AM

Look, bottom line is that there has been $$$$. It is all in how we've allocated it. We've seen that given structures on Brees' contract we could have made a play for him. We didn't. Heck, we spent $$$$ on Hovan that we could have devoted to Brees. Anyone think Brees > Hovan? Yeah, thought so. We didn't go after any FA QB's not out of money problems but out of Simms being "the man". That isn't a cap problem, it is a player evaluation problem.

Jones wanted to be the feature and our hestitation to make him the feature was......Pittman? Really? No, you are kidding me right? Oh, no you aren't. The decision on Jones becomes a cascading problem because we then had to go use a high pick on Caddy instead of on Merriman or Ware, for example. Each decision is a ripple that causes other problems.

We sign Steussie and Deese to deals that are the same as what Jeno James gets. James is a solid younger OG down in MIA right now, not getting him means that the OG psiotions stays in flux and we burn the R1 on Davin and miss on McNeil, Mangold for you C lovers, Kiwi and others. When you make a mistake the problem is how you have to make another move to fix that same mistake (see Harper, Emmauel, Green, Reidel, KJ as a great example of continuing failures).

The cap is an excuse becuase while we didn't have the jack for the most expensive players in the game the way we did use the jack we had was often rock dumb and the implications of those decisions continues into the problems we have today.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

DanTurksGhost

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#27 : December 19, 2006, 11:20:53 AM

The decision on Jones becomes a cascading problem because we then had to go use a high pick on Caddy instead of on Merriman or Ware, for example.

Having Jones didn't stop Chicago from spending a high pick on a RB.

alldaway

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#28 : December 19, 2006, 11:24:19 AM

Even assuming the Bucs did not re-sign Hovan I am still not seeing how the Bucs would be able to compete for Brees' services compared to what the Saints could muster.  That is like showing up to a gun fight with just your two fists.  :D

But overall I do agree with the point that one mistake has had a trickle down effect to other decisions. That is why this off season is very important on two fronts with the draft and free agency.

dalbuc

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#29 : December 19, 2006, 11:27:43 AM

Having Jones didn't stop Chicago from spending a high pick on a RB.

I'm not defining the stupid of other teams, Jones was 1300 yards of offense and notably caught 56 balls so wow, an rB who can catch.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
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