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Detrimental

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#135 : August 02, 2008, 09:02:43 PM

The Patriots are not primarily a zone defense rather they are a sophisticated hybrid defense.

If Asante Samuel isn't as good as you suggest then why would the Eagles pursue him? The Eagles rely on their CB's playing man to man so they can blitz as well.
Wrong. The Patriots play more zone than man coverage, specifically cover 3. That's why you see Harrison so close to the LOS. The Eagles are a zone team as well; reason why he was coveted badly is because the Eagles had 11 ints last season. Samuel had about 6-7 him damn self.

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Because McCray will be asked to be a situational pass rusher and he actually is far more proven then what the Bucs have as far as pass rushing ends go.

Colston recently signed an extension.
Simply not worth the big $$$ they paid. He couldn't get the job done with elite interior prescense and now with Brian Young and an unproven workout warrior you expect him to give them a huge boast? I don't.

alldaway

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#136 : August 02, 2008, 11:41:28 PM

The Patriots are not primarily a zone defense rather they are a sophisticated hybrid defense.

If Asante Samuel isn't as good as you suggest then why would the Eagles pursue him? The Eagles rely on their CB's playing man to man so they can blitz as well.
Wrong. The Patriots play more zone than man coverage, specifically cover 3. That's why you see Harrison so close to the LOS. The Eagles are a zone team as well; reason why he was coveted badly is because the Eagles had 11 ints last season. Samuel had about 6-7 him damn self.

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Because McCray will be asked to be a situational pass rusher and he actually is far more proven then what the Bucs have as far as pass rushing ends go.

Colston recently signed an extension.
Simply not worth the big $$$ they paid. He couldn't get the job done with elite interior prescense and now with Brian Young and an unproven workout warrior you expect him to give them a huge boast? I don't.

I disagree with the idea the Patriots are primarily a zone defense.  They are more man to man than zone and the same can be said of the Eagles.  It doesn't mean they don't use zone because as I mentioned earlier they are hybrid defense that is even more complex than the Bucs or even (arguably the Ravens) when it comes to coverages and schemes.

The money allocated to McCray was more than fair given the price tag for pass rushers down the road will be gargantuan.

alldaway

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#137 : August 02, 2008, 11:55:50 PM

This means Joseph has to step up to assist for Faine and justify his first round draft status or else the whispers of bust will only grow louder.

What whispers are those? I haven't heard any, at least not from anyone with any credibility.


Those with credibility were not exactly calling Clayton a bust after his second season.  Nothing wrong with taking a wait and see approach, but it can not be denied that this label on Joseph is floating around.

When drafting at the bottom of the first round everyone has different expectations when it comes to the players for the next level.  Some argue if you find just an average starter in the late first round that is a success.  While others argue that starter has to be at least above average/good to be considered a hit.  If not then they are considered a bust based on differing expectations.

When a player drafted down a few slots (and a year later) is outplaying that player (like Sears is doing) it is reasonable to understand why those whispers even exist for Joseph. 


By not having Jason David the starter anymore (zone corner) they can truly run Gibb's schemes the way he envisions them.  Gibbs wants to play man to man so he can send blitzes at a frenzied pace.

That right there is an upgrade in itself.

Gay's issues is that he can' stay healthy.  But when he is healthy he is a very capable man to man corner and if he was still with the Patriots he would be starting opposite of Hobbs (it could be argued the Patriots are in worse shape than the Saints secondary wise).

Between Glenn and Craft they have capable nickel corners. 

The Saints secondary has taken a lot of unfair flack when reality is the Saints D-line that vastly underperformed in 2007.  I do not see the Saints D-line under performing  for a second year in a row.  The Saints have prepared for this anyways by loading up on D-line talent by adding McCray and Ellis.

If their offense can produce leads their D-line along with Gibbs' blitzes will tee off on QB's.   

And adding Vilma to defend the intermediate passing lanes is also being under estimated.

Let's not forget Tracy Porter. I think aside from Ellis and Vilma, that was their biggest defensive move. McCray and Gay are ok, but Porter has the skills to be a nice all-around, cover CB. He'll take a little time to adjust, but I think he'll have more of an impact than those other guys as soon as mid-season.
 

I didn't include Porter in the first place. because it is hard to gauge the impact of rookie DB's as some take till mid season or even year 3 to break out.  But with a defensive lineman like Ellis if he is as good as advertised his presence will be immediate starting day uno.

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I'm seeing Ellis at DRT, which should put him up against Sears. In which case, I'm not all that worried. Should be a really, really good match-up for the next 6 years or so at least, but if there's one guy on this line I trust in run and pass blocking, it's this guy:

Against Sears I wouldn't be so concerned  about Ellis, and share your glowing praise for this young man. 

But remember that Hollis Thomas is also with the team and they could put him on the field with Ellis to force some mismatches in their favor. 

This means Joseph has to step up to assist for Faine and justify his first round draft status or else the whispers of bust will only grow louder.

What whispers are those? I haven't heard any, at least not from anyone with any credibility.

I've never heard anyone, including some of the trolls on this site, call Davin a bust.

Trolls are not interested in discussing football.

*All_da_way begins to chew on his gummy bears*

Think downplaying the Saints is a mistake. They are an above average team and will give every team, including  the Bucs, a ruin for their money.

Agree with Doc.

The Saints may not be an elite team like the Patriots, but they are not a team that will roll over so easily.

Snook

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#138 : August 03, 2008, 09:07:26 AM

I dont think the Saints have gotten an unjust amount of media attetion since Katrina.    The dome has been completely renovated btw.  Saints are full of like-able good players:  Drew Brees , Reggie Bush, M Colston , Deuce.    The media has always loved Jeremy Shockey.   

Who do the Bucs have worth national attention besides Jon Gruden?      hmmm,       hmmmm,       hmmmmm,   NO ONE. 

Ah... Saints fan? How many playoff wins does your franchise have in its FORTY year history?

Your franchise is a joke. 

Yeah, guys like Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber and Warrick Dunn aren't aren't likable players worth national attention.

Good one.  Now take your 2 playoff wins EVER and get to scampering...


king_frog

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#139 : August 03, 2008, 09:37:09 AM

And the addition of Shockey doesn't add a new dimension to their offense (like I've heard and read OVER AND OVER). Brees completed 75 passes to their 2 TEs last year. Shockey is an upgrade, but its not a new dimension to their offense.

Eric Johnson was their receiving TE, who averaged a pedestrian 7.9ypc last year.  Shockey averaged 10.9.  I think that's something to get excited about.  I know which one the Bucs LBs would prefer to cover.
Don't kid yourself !!! Shockey is a tremendous boost to the offense !!!

JasonOfthetower

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#140 : August 03, 2008, 12:11:33 PM

And the addition of Shockey doesn't add a new dimension to their offense (like I've heard and read OVER AND OVER). Brees completed 75 passes to their 2 TEs last year. Shockey is an upgrade, but its not a new dimension to their offense.

Eric Johnson was their receiving TE, who averaged a pedestrian 7.9ypc last year. Shockey averaged 10.9. I think that's something to get excited about. I know which one the Bucs LBs would prefer to cover.
Don't kid yourself !!! Shockey is a tremendous boost to the offense !!!
He
Shockey is overrated...always has been. Its more his flaboyance on the field than his actual production. He's definitely an upgrade over Eric Johnson...but we're not talking Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates here, guys.


Feel Real Good

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#141 : August 04, 2008, 08:57:59 AM

Bucs D struggles against good TE's and Shockey who many are underrating can exploit the Bucs D.

Bucs D used to struggle against good TEs, but not lately. Cato June has made a major difference. Sure the cover 2 is vulnerable to seam routes, but I don't recall any TEs having monster games against us last year.
The Bucs didn't play against many of the top TE's last season. Chris Cooley had 6 catches for 96 yards and a TD and Dallas Clark had 7 catches for 49 yards and a TD. Crumpler was washed up by last season. Anyhow, athletic TE's who can get behind the MLB will always be a problem for T2 teams.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Badabing

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#142 : August 04, 2008, 09:01:32 AM

Hey shut up Saints fan, we have plenty of people worth national attention.  Does Michael Clayton ring a bell?  What about Greg White?  Or um…hmmm…Jeff Faine….and Brian Griese…..Jovan Haye…..Quincy Black…..Chris Denman…umm…

Hey shut up…
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