Is the Saints offense really that good?

[Feel Real Good]

At SF and vs JAX.

[BucsPirate]

Because of Chris Simms, we don't have Drew Brees in Tampa Bay.

Did Bruce Allen ask Simms if he should sign Brees too?

[TBayXXXVII]

Fixed it for ya...

Because of the Glazers Chris Simms, we have Chris Simms instead of Drew Brees in Tampa Bay.

Gruden never liked Simms... FROM DAY 1!

[Feel Real Good]

Fixed it for ya...

Because of the Glazers Chris Simms, we have Chris Simms instead of Drew Brees in Tampa Bay.

Gruden never liked Simms... FROM DAY 1!

Please. Gruden gave Simms every opportunity to be the man. Simms was first off the bench when Brad Johnson got yanked in 2004, started 10 games in 2005 after Todd Steussie got Griese killed, and went into 2006 as the unquestioned starter with no real competition.

[John Galt?]

Brees is a good QB but after Colston who do they have at WR?  Guys not much better than Clayton/Stovall.  

In the running game, Graham, Dunn, Bennett vs McAllister(injury prone), Bush (can't take a hit), and Stecker, NO looks good for a game but they can't sustain for a season, add in the FBs and the Bucs have the edge.  But the running game is all about the line and here we have a BIG edge and Shockey doesn't block.

Without Faine their running game is going to suffer, shut down Colston and Shockey and they don't have that much.

[TBayXXXVII]

Fixed it for ya...

Because of the Glazers Chris Simms, we have Chris Simms instead of Drew Brees in Tampa Bay.

Gruden never liked Simms... FROM DAY 1!

Please. Gruden gave Simms every opportunity to be the man. Simms was first off the bench when Brad Johnson got yanked in 2004, started 10 games in 2005 after Todd Steussie got Griese killed, and went into 2006 as the unquestioned starter with no real competition.

Doesn't mean GRUDEN didn't like him.  Simms was a Glazers'/McKay pick, not an Allen/Gruden pick.  When the owner says "I want this guy", you have no choice.

[Booker Reese]

The Saints are a case of the sum being greater than the parts. John Galt? is correct in a sense - when you break down their talent versus other teams, they don't look as good. But they prosper because Brees is a sharp QB, who gets the ball out of his hand and generally protects the football (the Saints were the least sacked team in the league).  I wouldn't count on the OL collapsing either. I think Faine is a bigger gain for the Bucs than it is a loss for the Saints.

And JC510, while all those points are well taken, you need to keep in mind the following:

- the ypp doesn't matter as much when you consistently convert 3rd downs and have more first downs than your opponents. They were among the best 3 or 4 in the NFL at both.
- A ton of their turnovers happened in the first four weeks (half of all the picks in fact), when they were in free fall. I think 2006 and much of 2007 suggest that they generally are pretty protective of the football.
- They are also one of the least penalized offenses in the league. Combine that with very few sacks and it makes it a lot easier to move the ball.

I think the team as a whole is overhyped (and I'm on the fence about Sean Payton as a play-caller - too cute with some of the calls).  They don't run the ball very effectively either.  But I wouldn't underestimate this offense. It's very solid, and Shockey will be someone to worry about.

[Pewter Spot]

Fixed it for ya...

Because of the Glazers Chris Simms, we have Chris Simms instead of Drew Brees in Tampa Bay.

Gruden never liked Simms... FROM DAY 1!

Please. Gruden gave Simms every opportunity to be the man. Simms was first off the bench when Brad Johnson got yanked in 2004, started 10 games in 2005 after Todd Steussie got Griese killed, and went into 2006 as the unquestioned starter with no real competition.

Doesn't mean GRUDEN didn't like him. Simms was a Glazers'/McKay pick, not an Allen/Gruden pick. When the owner says "I want this guy", you have no choice.

If the Bucs didn't keep idle with making Chris Simms the starting QB for 2006 the Bucs would've no doubt done everything they could to get Drew Brees.

It's because of a false hope in Simms' ability we lost out on a Top-5 QB in the NFL.

I hate Chris Simms.

[Booker Reese]

Shockey doesn't block.

I think Shockey's overrated (elite talent, not consistently elite production), and the Saints overpaid, but that's a total myth. Everybody read about how Shockey complained about blocking in NYG. What he complained about was being asked to stay and pass-block longer. He thought his role should be one where he was attacking the D, as he did when Sean Payton was in NY. It's no surprise that his YPC fell.

In fact, for a guy with a rep as a pass-first TE, he's a phenomenal blocker, and he'll be a massive upgrade over Eric Johnson, who was basically just a pair of hands.

Here's Tiki Barber:

"I think of late with the Giants, that's been his rub. He hasn't been out to catch a pass. He hasn't been put in his most advantageous
situations, and injuries have been killing him every year. It's almost a product of his own success, because he became a hell of a blocker.
People don't talk about this stat, but when he went out last year, the Giants went from 4.5 yards a carry to 3.5, because he was so good at
that."

[Feel Real Good]

Doesn't mean GRUDEN didn't like him. Simms was a Glazers'/McKay pick, not an Allen/Gruden pick. When the owner says "I want this guy", you have no choice.

Who cares? They may put him on the roster, but Gruden doesn't have to play him. There are plenty of other players Gruden inherted he wasn't playing 3-4 years later. If Gruden hated him so much, why did Simms come off the bench first in 2004 instead of Griese? Why was Simms the unquestioned starter going into 2006 instead of Tim Rattay? Gruden had plenty of opportunities to make sure Simms never saw the field.

If the Bucs didn't keep idle with making Chris Simms the starting QB for 2006 the Bucs would've no doubt done everything they could to get Drew Brees.

It's because of a false hope in Simms' ability we lost out on a Top-5 QB in the NFL.

I hate Chris Simms.

Brees signed a $60 million contract with $20 million guaranteed. There's no way the Bucs were in position to pay that in 2006.

[TBayXXXVII]

Doesn't mean GRUDEN didn't like him. Simms was a Glazers'/McKay pick, not an Allen/Gruden pick. When the owner says "I want this guy", you have no choice.

Who cares? They may put him on the roster, but Gruden doesn't have to play him. There are plenty of other players Gruden inherted he wasn't playing 3-4 years later. If Gruden hated him so much, why did Simms come off the bench first in 2004 instead of Griese? Why was Simms the unquestioned starter going into 2006 instead of Tim Rattay? Gruden had plenty of opportunities to make sure Simms never saw the field.

I'm simply refruting the original comment that it was Simms' fault that we don't have Brees.  I'm saying it was the Glazers' fault.  The crap behind it is a whole other issue, BUT, if the owners WANT Simms, they aren't going to allow you to bring in competition.

[Feel Real Good]

Not signing Brees had nothing to do with the Glazers. The Bucs returned 21 of 22 starters for the 2006 season. They didn't spend money on ANYONE, let alone $60 million on a new quarterback. In the two off-seasons since, the Bucs still haven't come close to spending $60 million on any one free agent despite being near the top of the league in cap space. Faine is the only free agent Bruce Allen has ever signed here that got more than a $10 million bonus.

Also, remember Brees was coming off a serious injury and was considered a pretty big risk because of his shoulder. There was also concern he may revert back to how crappy he played in his first few years in the NFL.

[Uncle Stan]

People remember what they want to remember.

Also, too many try to compare a teams skills/stats for the previous year when it has no bearing really on the current year. Most teams have a good sized turnover from year to year which influences what they are "supposedly" going to do in the current year. To me the comparisons are meaningless unless you weigh in the changes-up AND down.

[bradentonian]

Without Faine their running game is going to suffer

They did just fine without him last year when he was out with his annual injury

shut down Colston and Shockey and they don't have that much.

You say that like it's a piece of cake.

[bradentonian]

Fixed it for ya...

Because of the Glazers Chris Simms, we have Chris Simms instead of Drew Brees in Tampa Bay.

Gruden never liked Simms... FROM DAY 1!

Please. Gruden gave Simms every opportunity to be the man. Simms was first off the bench when Brad Johnson got yanked in 2004, started 10 games in 2005 after Todd Steussie got Griese killed, and went into 2006 as the unquestioned starter with no real competition.

Doesn't mean GRUDEN didn't like him. Simms was a Glazers'/McKay pick, not an Allen/Gruden pick. When the owner says "I want this guy", you have no choice.

If the Bucs didn't keep idle with making Chris Simms the starting QB for 2006 the Bucs would've no doubt done everything they could to get Drew Brees.

It's because of a false hope in Simms' ability we lost out on a Top-5 QB in the NFL.

I hate Chris Simms.

Who offered Simms a long term deal with $10MM in guarantees before the 2006 season?  Did the Glazers force that on Gruden and Allen?