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alldaway

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#15 : October 11, 2006, 11:48:04 AM

Maybe, just maybe it's 2 fold. Not only do we have a lack of physical talent, but I think the O-line calls are also a big problem. There was obviously some blocking assignment confusion on the play where AD didn't block anyone and Caddy got dropped for a 6 yard loss. AD had a guy right over his outside shoulder, but didn't even breathe on him, and went out to block the LB. DE untouched for a 6 yard loss. What the hell was that. There are some serious problems with this O-line, and it's not just a lack of talent.

I do not think you can blame AD on that play.

Everytime Becht is out there he seems clueless.  I think Becht messed up on that play not AD.  It seems as if Becht decides to drop his IQ when playing against the Saints.  Last year Becht was still in his stance while Will Smith blew by him.

Lets face it folks Becht stinks and he simply does not know the blocking scheme.

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#16 : October 11, 2006, 11:57:18 AM

I do not think you can blame AD on that play.

Everytime Becht is out there he seems clueless.  I think Becht messed up on that play not AD.  It seems as if Becht decides to drop his IQ when playing against the Saints.  Last year Becht was still in his stance while Will Smith blew by him.

Lets face it folks Becht stinks and he simply does not know the blocking scheme.
I didn't blame AD. I think the O-line calls and blocking assignments suck. Is it Muir's scheme? Is it Wade's calls? Is it both? That post was in response to the question of whether it mattered, Mangold Or Joseph. I think it matters, because I believe this O-line's problems go beyond just a lack of talent. If Wade is messing the O-line calls, then yes, Mangold would have been more valuable than Joseph IMO.

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#17 : October 11, 2006, 02:11:36 PM

yeah, it's pretty clear in joseph's 20 or so snaps since coming off a freak knee injury that he won't measure up to mangold.  some of you guys are absolutely ridiculous.

with all the stuff not going right for the bucs, i don't know why people are inventing swords to fall on.

what the heck do you mean, 'what could have been'? would we have been averaging 53 rushing yards going into the saints game instead of 42? or maybe simms would've only thrown 6 interceptions? yeah, we're missing out, if only we could turn back time.

and for for what it's worth, i'd bet that john wade's name has been mentioned even fewer times that nick mangold's this season.



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#18 : October 11, 2006, 02:16:10 PM

I think that Joseph was on the field for two of the three TDs in Sunday's game.  I'm incredibly glad to see him out there and here's hoping he gets the start against the Bengirls.

Edit: I wish we were playing the Jets on Sunday, so we could put Joseph in at DT and settle this once and for all!!!    ;)

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#19 : October 11, 2006, 04:25:03 PM

It's really still too early to tell.  Doing well out of the chute is good, but some people take a little longer to get it down, but do just as well or better.  Compare em at the end of the season, and next, and it may be differen't.

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#20 : October 12, 2006, 01:12:07 AM

yeah, it's pretty clear in joseph's 20 or so snaps since coming off a freak knee injury that he won't measure up to mangold.  some of you guys are absolutely ridiculous.

with all the stuff not going right for the bucs, i don't know why people are inventing swords to fall on.

what the heck do you mean, 'what could have been'? would we have been averaging 53 rushing yards going into the saints game instead of 42? or maybe simms would've only thrown 6 interceptions? yeah, we're missing out, if only we could turn back time.

and for for what it's worth, i'd bet that john wade's name has been mentioned even fewer times that nick mangold's this season.
That's pretty funny. I guess you haven't watched any Buccaneer games the last 2 years. Wade sucks. The O-line as a unit sucks, and I refuse to believe it's all due to a lack of talent. Wade is the QB of the O-line, and not only does he not have it physically, he doesn't have it mentally. I blame a lot of our O-line woes on his line calls. Just because you choose to see this thread as a Mangold vs. Joseph argument, that's your problem. This is my opinion that a Center was More important than a Guard, no matter who that guard was.

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#21 : October 12, 2006, 09:43:53 AM

Mangold must have played a great game. He anchored the line that scored 0 points and 177 total yards. You can't judge Joesph yet because he has been hurt.

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#22 : October 12, 2006, 09:58:13 AM

Mangold must have played a great game. He anchored the line that scored 0 points and 177 total yards. You can't judge Joesph yet because he has been hurt.

LOL True. And let's see how we feel after Joseph and Trueblood play side by side for a few games. Let's see how we feel should they anchor the right side for 5-10 years.
WAAY to early to tell. CLEARLY.

We are all here because we are NOT all there.....
As always, GO BUCS!!!

alldaway

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#23 : October 12, 2006, 10:02:31 AM

Mangold must have played a great game. He anchored the line that scored 0 points and 177 total yards. You can't judge Joesph yet because he has been hurt.

We know center may be a need as well so Kyle Young may end up being a better alternative to Mangold anyways in my opinion.

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#24 : October 12, 2006, 10:05:32 AM

That's pretty funny. I guess you haven't watched any Buccaneer games the last 2 years. Wade sucks. The O-line as a unit sucks, and I refuse to believe it's all due to a lack of talent. Wade is the QB of the O-line, and not only does he not have it physically, he doesn't have it mentally. I blame a lot of our O-line woes on his line calls. Just because you choose to see this thread as a Mangold vs. Joseph argument, that's your problem. This is my opinion that a Center was More important than a Guard, no matter who that guard was.

i've watched every game, and you know what i noticed? mahan is a bigger liability than wade,  and a new center doesn't boost our ability to run right, something we did half as much as running left last year. that's a big handicap for an offense.

besides, when you say "what could have been", you sort of imply that past events would've been altered had we picked mangold instead of joseph.  as orangegone mentioned above, there's nothing in the game after which mangini made his comment to demonstrate that mangold can turn around offensive futility singlehandedly at this point in his career.  all mangini said was "he hasn't categorically screwed up very much", so if we talk wade vs. mangold, how many times has wade categorically screwed up this year?

and i think a rookie center would be hard pressed, regardless of physical talent, to make the calls at the line for a gruden offense, especially now (since we're in hindsight mode) that he has to look out for a rookie tackle and a rookie QB who'll get blitzed until they're numb over the next few weeks.

so to respond to "what could have been", i say, "same thing that is right now, but with no hope of running to the right side this year"

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#25 : October 12, 2006, 01:48:16 PM

We can only hope that Davin pans out because, Clayton looks like a bust and Caddy hasn't looked great so far this season.


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#26 : October 12, 2006, 02:16:44 PM

Reading comprehension anyone?????

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#27 : October 13, 2006, 10:12:53 AM

Reading comprehension anyone?????

are you referring to my post? not sure what i could've misread

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#28 : October 13, 2006, 10:16:48 AM

are you referring to my post? not sure what i could've misread
Center vs. Guard...not Mangold vs. Joseph. It doesn't matter how many plays Joseph has been in for. I believe the defense recognition and line calls is a big problem with our O-line. The best Center in the draft would have been more valuable to this Line in my opinion than the best Guard in the draft.

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#29 : October 13, 2006, 11:12:10 AM

Center vs. Guard...not Mangold vs. Joseph. It doesn't matter how many plays Joseph has been in for. I believe the defense recognition and line calls is a big problem with our O-line. The best Center in the draft would have been more valuable to this Line in my opinion than the best Guard in the draft.

i touched on those points...
center vs guard: "a new center doesn't boost our ability to run right, something we did half as much as running left last year. that's a big handicap for an offense."

better line calls: "i think a rookie center would be hard pressed, regardless of physical talent, to make the calls at the line for a gruden offense, especially now (since we're in hindsight mode) that he has to look out for a rookie tackle and a rookie QB who'll get blitzed until they're numb over the next few weeks."

it's hard to turn this into an argument of generalities, it has to be about the individuals involved: mangold vs joseph.  if the best guard was rated a 1st-rounder and the best center was rated a 4th rounder, then your argument would be silly.  vice versa, and i'd be an idiot, so generalities about 'best center vs best guard' don't really work.  instead we're talking about 2 specific individuals who are deemed close in talent, and who's in a position to help our team more.
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