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Hall of Famer

Posts : 10703
#90 : August 14, 2008, 05:41:45 PM

McCown was lucky to get PUPed in 2006 because he most likely would have been cut.  Simms, the new QB of the Future Gradkowski, and Tim Rattay.  Simms went down in week 3 so it didn’t matter and the Bucs added him as 3rd string.

You're wrong on this one. McCown going down was a bigger deal than was let on at the time. Rattay wouldn't have made the roster.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

Uncle Stan

Hall of Famer
Posts : 17437
#91 : August 14, 2008, 06:20:00 PM

Agreed.not the way Rattay played in pre-season.

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

#92 : August 14, 2008, 07:09:55 PM


Re-read my post....nowhere in my post did I ever suggest that McCown was going to be a great QB for a long time....and don't suggest I am stupid.  What IS stupid is to try and place words in the mouths of other posters.


Hall of Famer

Posts : 5817
#93 : August 14, 2008, 07:22:06 PM

See what I mean?  You say false things like its almost a given Garcia will miss the season due to an injury.  That is being biased and hatred for Garcia.  The guy was healthy with the Eagles.  He also was healthy with us with exception of the Saints game.  He could have played the Houston game but we were so far ahead in the division that Gruden was precautious with him.  After we got spanked, Gruden immediately said Garcia would play next week.  So as he did miss some time in WAS and SEA games, he really only missed the Saints game due to an injury, and even then he wanted to play.  Gruden was being precautious with him.

There are a lot of people saying that McCown won't or can't be our or anyone's future QB... yet, the same parallel can't be said about Garcia getting hurt?  Also, outside of the last 2 games of the season, Gradkowski and McCown took snaps in games 1, 5, 11, 12, and 13.  That's a little bit more than Garcia missing just one game.  It's shows that as the season went on, he was getting hurt more often

McCown, Griese, and Simms have all been IRed for season ending injuries, so saying Garcia is a glass pirate should also mean that those 3 are.

As for McCown, 1 freak injury does not make someone injury prone.

And I�m sorry but I support our starting QB�and if by some miracle McCown becomes the starter, I will support him and have to change my view of him in order to continue to be a Bucs Fan.  I don�t know how you can root for a team but root against the starter.  I�m not saying you have to like Garcia, bc I�ll admit nobody should be happy that we have a 38 year old as our starting QB and I agree that who wouldn�t love the likes of an Aikman, Elway, etc., but if you are insinuating that McCown has the potential to be one of them, I think you�re out of your mind.

If Garcia starts, fine, you won't hear me complain, I'm just saying that I'd rather see the kid than go 9-7 with Garcia

The guy couldn�t even muster up 3 points against the 1-15 Dolphins defense in a quarter and a half of football, and they don�t even have Jason Taylor or Zach Thomas anymore.  I hope that if Garcia and Griese get hurt that McCown would play lights out, I want what is best for the Bucs, but when people say�let�s bench our probowl quarterback and just start the season with McCown, 27 years old, I just shake my head.  People want to throw the season away because we want a QB of the Future who is approaching 30?  McCown is a good back-up Quarterback.  And that is being generous considering the Bucs brought in Griese because they weren�t confident in McCowns abilities to win games if Garcia were to go down. 

It's the pre-season!!  Besides, that wasn't the 1-15 Dolphins of last year, it's most likely a 6 or 7 win team in 2008.

People say McCown will get better with experience, but remember people, this isn�t a simulated Madden Franchise.  Did Gradkowski or Simms get better with time?  They did in Madden if you started them from the start, but after opposing teams got video on him, in real life, they fell flat on their faces.  I�m not saying McCown has the same fate, but he shows more tenendacies of turning into one of them then a Peyton Manning�. 

I never said he WILL get better with time... I just want to see if he does.  Like I said before, I don't think nor believe he could ever be Peyton Manning... I'm perfectly happy with him being able to play like Chad Pennington.

Here's my overall reasoning.
1.  With Garcia, this isn't a Super Bowl team... most likely a 9-7/10-6 team that gets bumped in the first round of the playoffs if we even make it.
2.  After the season, Garcia is a UFA and will mostly likely leave... just like McCown... AND Griese as well.
3.  That leaves us next year with only Josh Johnson on our roster and the 20th pick in the draft.  Franchise QB's don't generally fall that far.  Yes, it's happen, but do you want to bank the future on it?
4.  With McCown anything is possible, 4-12/8-8/12-4.  Since we aren't going to the Super Bowl, let's see what the kid can do.  Personally, I see 8-8 as the most likely scenario, but at the very least, a full body of work will be available to go on.

In summation, there is no downside to McCown starting.


Second String
Posts : 176
#94 : August 14, 2008, 07:34:52 PM

For Garcia fans to comment:

The Bucs went 9-7 last year.I am pretty sure that Luke McCown was the QB in the road game at NO for a win there. That leaves 8 wins for Garcia,or so it seems,( Badabing keeps saying 8-4) , but you cannot be saying that his 2 of 4 for 9 yds against Wash led to that victory, do you? The defense got 6 turnovers that game, and even Grads managed not to lose it. If you still want to give Garcia credit for that game because he "started", then you have to "credit" him with the loss in SF, which he started. So, by my count, only 7 wins.

Of those 7; four wins came against the NFC South:
Beat Carolina once, but with Peppers ineffective and without Delhomme.
Beat New Orleans once with Brees in the midst of a 1TD/10INT run to start the season, and with the Saints having the 30th ranked passing defense. So bad that opposing QB's posted an AVERAGE rating of 96.9 against them for the year! (BTW, this comment goes for the McCown fans too)
Beat ATL twice with that team in shambles afer Vick/Petrino. BTW, their D ranked 29th overall.
So, IMHO the NFC South opponents were unusually quite weak last year, and Garcia simply benefitted from their troubles.

To his credit, Garcia did beat Ariz (28th against the pass), and StL (21st), but the only team ranked defensively in the top HALF of the league he was able to beat was Tennesee, where he led a comeback drive for a winning FG, but the team only scored 13 points total. Let me say that again; all of Jeff's victories except Tenn came against poorer defensive teams, most of them near the bottom of the defensive rankings. Furthermore, it could also be argued that Garcia lost the games against Det (2 Fum)  and Jax (3INT) with his play.

The Bucs Defense was ranked #2 overall in the league last year, pretty good dontcha think? Yet, even with such a good defense, the Bucs D had EIGHT games where the opponents scored 20 or more points.  The Bucs QB's were a combined 1-7 in 2007 when the opponents scored 20 or more points, and the only win was against NO with McCown at the helm. That's right, Garcia was 0 for the season if the opponents scored twenty or more.

My major concern with this fact is that over the last five years, the winner of the vast majority of playoff games in the NFL scored at least TWENTY points.

Look, I don't hate Garcia, but I do feel that the only teams he looked great against were the lower tier teams, and frankly I thought he was less than average against the better teams.
As posted previously, it takes more than 20 points per game to win in the playoffs, and MOST of those teams typically have good defenses.

For the McCown fans to comment:

My biggest concern about McCown revolves around a SINGLE play, which ironically occurred in perhaps his greatest moment last year, the comeback victory over NO.
I know that he is NFL-inexperienced, but I assume he must have played QB in college and high school, and maybe even in the peewee leagues somewhere.
My question: How does a QB at any level take a snap inside his own five yard line, without repeating the mantra.... I can't take a safety, I can't take a safety....????
He didn't slip or fall. No lineman stepped on his shoe. No unaccounted blitzer I can remember. IIRC, he just rolled out in his own endzone till he ran out of real estate.
Why didn't he throw the ball away?

So, I'll just sit back and let you all convince me to support your candidate for starter. BTW, if you promise to lower my taxes, you'll probably have the inside track! ;D  ;D

The Crow's Nest (seriously tired of paying my "fair" share of taxes)



Posts : 609
#95 : August 14, 2008, 07:49:33 PM


I know you probably hate when people shut down your un-reasonable posts, but everyone does, so don’t feel bad. At least I can say that if someone proves me wrong I'm a man and I'll admit it. But if I use the career of Michael Jordan as an example when talking about Keith Bogans, I would expect everybody to think I'm comparing the 2 or think that what one did the other can do. So next time you talk about Ms. McCown you may want to use references such as Feely, Holcomb, etc. because that’s what his career path is as of today.

#96 : August 14, 2008, 08:31:39 PM

Again, my point is NOT that McCown is another Manning, etc.  Again, re-read my post.

My POINT is that we need to stop band-aiding the QB spot.

And not everyone shuts down my posts. 


Pro Bowler
Posts : 1810
#97 : August 14, 2008, 10:04:34 PM

I don’t think anyone considers Favre or Garcia the future. And define Future. How is McCown the closest thing we have to the future? Why not Simms? He has accomplished more than McCown in this league and is of the same age? Why not Griese? Griese can probably play the same amount of years that McCown can. Why not Josh Johnson? I say if we are going to start over and prep for the future, I much rather go with the guy who is 22 than the guy who is approaching 30.

McCown was lucky to get PUPed in 2006 because he most likely would have been cut. Simms, the new QB of the Future Gradkowski, and Tim Rattay. Simms went down in week 3 so it didn’t matter and the Bucs added him as 3rd string.

He is certainly an improved player, but the SKY is NOT the LIMIT for this guy. Again, maybe in madden he is…for those fans that play the game, what was the highest he has been rated for you?

It's amazing that someone can't see that Simms is done with this team.  Allen and Gruden will move this guy shortly.
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