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MBF

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#30 : August 18, 2008, 03:34:54 PM

This is the bottom line: We have 2 good back-up QB's who can run the offense when Garcia goes down

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#31 : August 18, 2008, 03:35:53 PM

Too bad we don't have a starter who stays up so the back ups stay back ups.

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#32 : August 18, 2008, 03:36:20 PM

I'm with you now badabing. I want us to have a great QB as much as the next guy. Just don't see that McCown is that guy.




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#33 : August 18, 2008, 03:37:58 PM

But you're not judging McCown the same way?

No, I'm not.  I haven't said he did anything amazing.  I'm basing my opinion of him on what I've seen of him over the last few years.  He's improved.  That tells me he hasn't hit his ceiling, because each year he's still getting better.

Heck, I'm not even saying he's hands-down better than Brian, although he probably will be. 

The problem is Brian just sucks.  This checkdown crap is cute in the preseason, but it will get you eaten alive in the regular.  WE HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.  And when Brian tries to make something happen, it's as likely to hurt as to help.  Luke looks like a young guy with a lot of potential.  He's at the point where he needs game time to see if he can reach it.  I don't like the idea of sticking with a QB that we know sucks rather than take a chance.  Are we so afraid of the price of him not making it that we're willing to pass up the reward of him making it?


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#34 : August 18, 2008, 03:38:35 PM

Caradoc…aren’t you basing McCown’s glory on the future/potential?  Honestly, based on last year, aside from the decent stats, (which hey even Simms went 8/10 a week ago and still looked like crap) really isn’t all that great.  

Will you admit you’re wrong when The depth charts are settled and McCown is #3 or will you try to be a politician and won’t admit you’re wrong and just try to win the argument and go as far as to say Gruden can’t judge talent.  McCown looked good last night, and that is coming from me.  But you are just trying to defend your side when you say Griese will not play good this year because of the past.  If the past is any indication for McCown, then he won’t get a single rep in the regular season.

And Griese made some mistakes while he was here, but he was not horrible.  Don’t get me wrong, those costly INTs angered me and Griese isn’t the guy you want in there when you’re down.  But I’ll take him any day of the week over McCown if Garcia gets hurt in a game and we have the lead.  

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#35 : August 18, 2008, 03:39:01 PM

Well doc, go ahead and post their career stats side by side and the disagreement settles itself.


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#36 : August 18, 2008, 03:39:37 PM

 If the past is any indication for McCown, then he won’t get a single rep in the regular season.



In the only meaningful game McCown played in, he lit up the Saints secondary.

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#37 : August 18, 2008, 03:40:07 PM

It's Gruden's offense, not the QB's ability so much.

This. ^^^

I have nothing further to add to that.



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#38 : August 18, 2008, 03:41:05 PM

Well doc, go ahead and post their career stats side by side and the disagreement settles itself.

No, it doesn't.  Because Luke doesn't have a valid sample size for that comparison.

Brian's stats prove he is what he is.  He's not going to change this far into his career.  Luke is still learning.  Give him a couple of season's starting time, and then we could compare.


Lamond

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#39 : August 18, 2008, 03:41:52 PM

True MBF, but he also cost us 9 points we wouldn't have needed to make up if he was more aware.


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#40 : August 18, 2008, 03:43:09 PM

 If the past is any indication for McCown, then he won’t get a single rep in the regular season.



In the only meaningful game McCown played in, he lit up the Saints secondary.

Well I believe Houston was meaningful.  We could have clinched the South with a victory there and instead lost by 2 touchdowns.  As for the Saints game, that was an amazing game by McCown, despite his 9 points for the Saints.  However, remember even Gradkowski looked good against the Saints in 2006.  The Saints don’t have the best of defenses.  Also McCown entered the 49ers game with the lead and blew it by giving the 49ers 14 pts off of turnovers.  

Not saying he didn’t do decent for us last year, but I much rather have won some games with him in there.  And Houston was a meaningful game too.

Lamond

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#41 : August 18, 2008, 03:43:19 PM

Well doc, go ahead and post their career stats side by side and the disagreement settles itself.

No, it doesn't. Because Luke doesn't have a valid sample size for that comparison.

Brian's stats prove he is what he is. He's not going to change this far into his career. Luke is still learning. Give him a couple of season's starting time, and then we could compare.



The fact that Luke doesn't have the stats prove what he is...if you believe that Griese's stats prove what he is.


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#42 : August 18, 2008, 03:43:53 PM

Return of the Lamond, I really could have used you like 3 months ago when this all started.  It was basically a handful of posters against me in this debate.  It�s good to see another person joining the �Darkside.�

Nah I agree.  If you�re a McCown supporter, how can you critique anything Griese did last night?  And if your anti-McCown, meaning you think Garcia and Griese are better options, how can you critique anything McCown did last night?  McCown looked solid last night; I just think Griese looked better and against the starters.


If McCown fails to win the #2 spot I will be right there doubting McCown as a starting NFL caliber QB.   We fell for it twice (Simms, Gradkowski) and shame on us if we fall for it for a possible third time.

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#43 : August 18, 2008, 03:44:35 PM

This was Brian Griese in '05 vs. Luke McCown in '07:


NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A LNG TD TD% INT INT% SACK YDS RAT
Brian Griese 112 174 1136 64.4 6.53 80 7 4.0 7 4.0 12 76 79.6

Luke McCown 94 139 1009 67.6 7.26 60 5 3.6 3 2.2 15 104 91.7

MBF

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#44 : August 18, 2008, 03:45:17 PM

True MBF, but he also cost us 9 points we wouldn't have needed to make up if he was more aware.
Yep. Every QB on our roster (except for JJ) has thrown a pick 6 in their NFL career so that didn't bother me as much as that horrible safety. I know McCown has his shortcomings and must improve but his potential is exciting. We went into a division rival's house and punched them in the mouth, coming from behind to win and putting up big offensive numbers in the process.
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