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xDARKOx

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: October 10, 2006, 07:19:09 PM

ok i have to say a couple things about Allen and Phillips since so many people like to bash them.


Phillips
I don't think alot of people realize he was a 5th round draft pick, he wasnt a 1st or 2nd rounder like I think some of you think he was. Most 5th rounders don't even make the squad. Now I'm not sticking up for him because he has made bad plays but hes under alot of pressure, I mean how would you do if you had to feel one of the all time great Bucs? People want to compare him to Lynch, but its not possible. Lynch didn't do good up until his 4th year in Tampa, this is Phillips' 5th year. Should he be making more plays? Sure, but he was a 5th round pick and he is compared to John Lynch which IMO is not fare at all. Should he be replaced? Lets see how he does this year and go on from there.



Allen
Not sure how many know about this but Allen's origonal position is Strong Safety. He showed some good stuff last year on minimal playing time and 2 of his 3 interceptions last year came at the Strong Safety spot. 4th round pick out of Ohio State University where he was a good playmaker. I have faith that this guy can be good, he reminds me of a young Ken Hamlin (FS - Seattle) but he just needs to get some game experience. IMO either the bucs draft a FS early and move Allen back to SS or draft a SS and bench Phillips.  Don't give up on this guy yet, he's had a couple times where he could've had a INT but he went for the hit. He'll see that on the tape and will look for the ball first, and he is a ballhawk.

simms22

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#1 : October 10, 2006, 08:07:02 PM

i think will allen definitely has potential to be a very good safety just hasnt played well, as for phillips, he just isnt good in coverage and is lacking in run support this year. I think allens is mental and technique while phillips just isnt fast enough for the position it seems...

alldaway

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#2 : October 10, 2006, 08:09:43 PM

I still believe in both of them.   It does not help that the D-line is non existant and the veteran LB's are screwing up as well.

doublenickel55

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#3 : October 10, 2006, 08:21:09 PM

ok i have to say a couple things about Allen and Phillips since so many people like to bash them.


Phillips
I don't think alot of people realize he was a 5th round draft pick, he wasnt a 1st or 2nd rounder like I think some of you think he was. Most 5th rounders don't even make the squad. Now I'm not sticking up for him because he has made bad plays but hes under alot of pressure, I mean how would you do if you had to feel one of the all time great Bucs? People want to compare him to Lynch, but its not possible. Lynch didn't do good up until his 4th year in Tampa, this is Phillips' 5th year. Should he be making more plays? Sure, but he was a 5th round pick and he is compared to John Lynch which IMO is not fare at all. Should he be replaced? Lets see how he does this year and go on from there.



Allen
Not sure how many know about this but Allen's origonal position is Strong Safety. He showed some good stuff last year on minimal playing time and 2 of his 3 interceptions last year came at the Strong Safety spot. 4th round pick out of Ohio State University where he was a good playmaker. I have faith that this guy can be good, he reminds me of a young Ken Hamlin (FS - Seattle) but he just needs to get some game experience. IMO either the bucs draft a FS early and move Allen back to SS or draft a SS and bench Phillips. Don't give up on this guy yet, he's had a couple times where he could've had a INT but he went for the hit. He'll see that on the tape and will look for the ball first, and he is a ballhawk.

The coaching staff had high hopes for Phillips, and thought he would make more of an impact on the team. He is doing well for a 5th round draft pick, but Lynch was the Bucs second pick in  the 3rd round. Not that much higher.

As far as Lynch not having an impact for four years, not many players did on the Bucs Defense. We had such a solid core of defensive players that some players that could have started elsewhere, rode the pine for a bit. A recent example is Ruud. He would be starting on several teams.

OpTiOnMaStA

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#4 : October 10, 2006, 08:32:20 PM

Allen is a good player and a ballhawk. He will stay and he will be one of our safeties.

Phillips on the other hand stinks, hands down and needs to be replaced by someone more instinctive.

leeroybuc93

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#5 : October 10, 2006, 09:21:04 PM

What does being a 5th rounder have to do with anything?  I don't care if he was a 10th rounder from 1982!  What round you are drafted in goes out the window on the first day of your first mini camp!  If the coaches are going to put him on the field, it's reasonable to expect some sort of competence!

Can I make that argument for Booger?  "Booger was a fifth round talent guys.  It's not his fault that the Bucs screwed up and took him way too high.  He was never that good to begin with, but throw on top of that he's trying to replace a legend in Sapp..."

Phillips is a starter regardless of what round he was drafted in.   The touchdowns we give up count for 6 points no matter what round our players were picked in!

xDARKOx

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#6 : October 11, 2006, 12:53:12 AM

What does being a 5th rounder have to do with anything?  I don't care if he was a 10th rounder from 1982!  What round you are drafted in goes out the window on the first day of your first mini camp!  If the coaches are going to put him on the field, it's reasonable to expect some sort of competence!

Can I make that argument for Booger?  "Booger was a fifth round talent guys.  It's not his fault that the Bucs screwed up and took him way too high.  He was never that good to begin with, but throw on top of that he's trying to replace a legend in Sapp..."

Phillips is a starter regardless of what round he was drafted in.   The touchdowns we give up count for 6 points no matter what round our players were picked in!
the higher the round they're takin in usualy tells you how good they're going to be. Theres only been a few exceptions in the whole draft. (Tom Brady, Terrell Davis, players like that)

Boid Fink

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#7 : October 11, 2006, 12:54:07 AM

the higher the round they're takin in usualy tells you how good they're going to be. Theres only been a few exceptions in the whole draft. (Tom Brady, Terrell Davis, players like that)

...Bruce Gradkowski?


I can only hope.


xDARKOx

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#8 : October 11, 2006, 02:02:44 AM

...Bruce Gradkowski?


I can only hope.
I didnt mention him because its only been 1 game and didnt wanna jinx him

coopsxx

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#9 : October 11, 2006, 06:00:48 AM

There has been thousands of late rounders who have been great, even hall of famers. The thing that frustrates fans is that Phillips and Booger have the talent to be good, they are just not getting it done. These guys can play but they are not.

It's a whole different story if we were slamming bums like Tim Wansley or John Howell

nitey

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#10 : October 11, 2006, 10:36:06 AM

>> Phillips on the other hand stinks, hands down and needs to be replaced by someone more instinctive. <<

It wasn't that long ago that the same was said of Brian Kelly after he replaced Donnie Abraham. It took Kelly the better part of a season and a half to start playing well after we let Abraham go. Now he's one of the more valuable players on the defense.

Phillips is trying to hard IMO and he's suffering from the lack of having any push from the front seven. I'm not happy with his play, but I remember Tomlin saying that Phillips had star potential and he didn't just say that about anyone. I think sitting Phillips for a game or two might do him some good, but I don't think the Bucs should give up on him yet. He just needs to see the game from the sidelines for bit to get his perspective back.

JMO.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

cvillebucfan

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#11 : October 11, 2006, 11:00:09 AM

Jermaine Phillips is pitiful, Kelly and Phillips are night and day, the comparison garners zero comparison. Phillips has seen action a full season and 4 games into this season he has regressed...



Baghead #2

nitey

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#12 : October 11, 2006, 12:37:33 PM

Cville,

That's your opinion. When Phillips first started playing the safety position while Lynch was out, he played pretty well. Well enough that Kiffen made the call to bench Lynch. I won't disagree that Phillips has regressed, but at least in my opinion the comparison is most definately valid. Kelly was horrible that first year after we let Abraham go. Fans were calling him garbage and a bust and that was just the more polite ones. 

I just don't think Tomlin and Kiffen (heck, Lynch even said that Phillips was going to be star) were that wrong. He's struggling, he needs to sit, he needs to win back his job, but he's not yet at the stage where the Bucs need to throw him away.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

miamicanes04

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#13 : October 11, 2006, 02:53:45 PM

Kelly is the best corner on this team. I honestly think he is better than Barber.


mjs020294

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#14 : October 11, 2006, 03:01:10 PM

Donte Nicholson was the highest rated SS on many boards last year, and he isn't even with the team anymore.

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