Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Calvin Johnson??????? « previous next »
Page: 1 ... 3 4 5



Guest
#60 : December 30, 2006, 08:50:44 PM

Oh yea, for those of you who aren't aware, STOVALL just may end up at TE. So with that being said, yea lets just forget about drafting CJ, a now much needed position and draft DE which can be gained via FA, DT which can be gained via FA and OL whether it's RT/RG which can be gained via FA (however, the OL has become much much better than it's ever been in recent years, IMHO).
We wouldn't need a new G unless it's for backup purposes only. Buenning (if he is healthy come camp) and Davin will be enough, Mahan, and possibly Terry / Anthony Davis (if we land Joe Thomas, perhaps he becomes a 'swingman' on the line) if not perhaps Steinbach who can play all 5 spots, though I'd prefer for him to become our new center if signed.



Guest
#61 : December 30, 2006, 08:47:44 PM

You can't dismiss what a person says just because of the number of posts. I have been a reader here for the past few years. Also, how does number of posts have anything to do with a person's football knowledge and opinions?
I didn't, just like 3 new users posted back-back-back, oddity on this board.
So now it's a NUB INVASION because there are 3 new users who may just know a little bit more about football than your so called "rjgobucs1 Bucs Hall of Famer Posts: 9056 self". Hmmm, amazing what a little knowledge can do to people who are affraid of the truth. So what if I am new to this board, that doesn't make me or any other postee a NUB at football. Perhaps, I grew tired of other lame ass boards and found this forum intriguing or perhaps I have been a reader of this forum for quite some time now and just never really cared to register and comment until now.

Things that make you go hmmmm...

I'm not on here to disrespect anyone's thoughts or opinions, THIS IS A FORUM SO I AM ADDRESSING MY THOUGHTS AS WELL.
LOL, welcome to the board, I'd feel a lot more intimidated by your theory if I had actually been conversing with you.

Larry Brackins

*
Starter
****
Posts : 589
Offline
#62 : December 30, 2006, 08:52:18 PM

THe thing is - Calvin Johnson reminds me a LOT of CHarles Rogers. I've said it several times - watch his games. THis guy, who is 6'4 and runs a 4.4-40, is rarely wide open. IN fact, he doesn't seem to get separation nearly as well as his physical skills dictate. Why? He runs poor routes. Remember - Clayton's biggest edge in his rookie season was his routes - he ran them crisp and managed to get open despite running a 4.6 (I think the main reason his production's fallen off - he's running dreadful routes now). Want a perfect example - Larry Fitz ran a 4.56 40 but you can't cover this guy, period. His routes are precise, all his cuts and digs are crisp and he plays faster than his 40 whereas I feel Johnson plays a lot slower.

I would love nothing more than for Dwayne Jarrett or Steve Smith to have awful pro days. Maybe not so much Jarreet as Smith. I have a feeling that we can snag Steve in the 2nd or maybe even Indi's 2nd pick and then use our #1 on Gaines. Smith's only 6-0 and he's not speedy, but he's a great route runner.

route running can be coached.
6'4 and runs a 4.4-40 can't be coached.
And remember Clayton played his rookie season with Tim Brown. You can't tell me that Clayton didn't learn some things form Tim Brown. Clavin Johnson could just as easily learn form Galloway.
What can the 5'11 WR teach the 6'4 WR? They are different recievers with different body types.
Whatever Brown taught Clayton was forgot as soon as Brown retired.

I agree with those you say Johnson runs poor routes. You can teach route running, but does he want to learn? It almost seems like he runs half-assed.


#SaveUsJohnnyFootball

You Got BUCd Up

***
Second String

Posts : 132
Offline
#63 : December 30, 2006, 08:52:35 PM

Quote
LOL, welcome to the board, I'd feel a lot more intimidated by your theory if I had actually been conversing with you.

Well then, Thank you for the warm welcoming



"People make themselves out to be idiots... I'm just here to help them realize it."

Hallelujah holla back...

Samari28

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 3779
Offline
#64 : December 30, 2006, 09:51:27 PM

First of all Joey is not going to teach Calvin anything as he even said it himself - he will be a good teammate but he has no plans of ever showing a guy what it takes to take his job - he said this on one of his radio shows a few weeks ago.  Michael Clayton runs better routes than Calvin Johnson yet he gets ripped all the time now so I don't care how many or how few posts some make drafting Calvin Johnson makes no sense what so ever.  We have spent a 1st round pick on Clayton, 3rd on Stovall and countless others on Brackins, Paris Warren and others so this is a position that we have wasted picks on and I do not want to see us waste another pick on a WR.  Gaines Adams has shown for four years that he is a player and again, put him with Simeon and we have a great pass rushing tandem.  Some of you think we can just sign Freeney or any other DL although there are other teams out there that can bid with us or even out bid us as they do not have as many needs as we do.  We have screwed ourselves over the past few years as had we drafted Mark Anderson rather than Julian Jenkins or any other players rather than the offensive guys no longer on this team we may not have this many holes.  This is on Gruden and Monte's heads.



Guest
#65 : December 30, 2006, 10:05:08 PM

I wouldn't call Paris 'wasted', now JR Russell is another story.

Samari28

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 3779
Offline
#66 : December 30, 2006, 10:16:08 PM

No I was just saying we have spent a lot of picks on WR's



Guest
#67 : December 30, 2006, 10:19:53 PM

Agreed.



Guest
#68 : December 31, 2006, 12:40:14 AM

Ok, Samari28, your logic makes absolutley no sense. You think because we have spent several picks over the last few years on wide receivers, you want this team to just ignore the position on draft day based on that fact. Maybe we should draft a receiver BECAUSE WE NEED ONE. Oh wait, Clayton is a first round pick, so we can't spend another first rounder on a wide receiver cause we already have one on our team. Oh and then we have a third rounder too. Guess we can't get a wide receiver... Look at the facts, Clayton has been terrible the past 2 years, Galloway is ancient, so is Hilliard, and Stovall is completely unproven. But according to you, we have already spent picks on the wide receiving corps, and even if they suck and continue to suck, its alright because we spent our picks and thats that. And this whole Gaines Adams thing is just like Mario Williams last year. We will draft him, miss out on CJ, who will have a great season, and like Williams, Adams will end up with 4-6 sacks. You can't draft a d-linemen that high.

Samari28

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 3779
Offline
#69 : December 31, 2006, 12:47:04 AM

What I am saying is how many picks do we need to waste before we find some WR's for this team so why allow another mistake to be made.  In my opinion we have had a lack of evaluation of talent at  positions and WR is one of them so I do not trust this regime to make that call.  Clayton still has a chance to become good again as many people ignore the fact he did what he did in his rookie year due to Galloway being injured and now that Galloway is back Galloway is putting up those numbers.  We will never know what kind of numbers Clayton would have put up opposite Galloway.  My guess is as soon as Joey retires Michael puts up rookie like numbers again.  Calvin Johnson is a tall fast WR that cannot run routes, does not dominate lesser talent and one that I would pass on.  Maybe you should look outside the box a little before you criticize my posts as you have to be able to read between the lines.

Larry Brackins

*
Starter
****
Posts : 589
Offline
#70 : December 31, 2006, 02:39:14 AM

What I am saying is how many picks do we need to waste before we find some WR's for this team so why allow another mistake to be made. In my opinion we have had a lack of evaluation of talent at positions and WR is one of them so I do not trust this regime to make that call. Clayton still has a chance to become good again as many people ignore the fact he did what he did in his rookie year due to Galloway being injured and now that Galloway is back Galloway is putting up those numbers. We will never know what kind of numbers Clayton would have put up opposite Galloway. My guess is as soon as Joey retires Michael puts up rookie like numbers again. Calvin Johnson is a tall fast WR that cannot run routes, does not dominate lesser talent and one that I would pass on. Maybe you should look outside the box a little before you criticize my posts as you have to be able to read between the lines.

We haven't really used a high pick on a WR yet. Stovall was either a 3rd or a 4th rounder, and that is the highest we've used. Warren, Russel, and Mark Jones were 7th round picks. Brackins was a 6th rounder. Maquise Walker was a 4th rounder.

To me, once you get past the 3rd round the quality of talent drops. In alot of drafts, it drops after the 2nd round.

I agree with you about CJ, which is why I like Ginn better. Ginn is also instant impact on ST.


#SaveUsJohnnyFootball

watson

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 5168
Offline
#71 : December 31, 2006, 06:51:01 AM

Pirates,
If you look at the drafts since 2001, the number of high round draft choices at WR that have been busts is pretty amazing.  Here is a list of the players that were taken in the first 2 rounds 01-05 that have been busts or are headed that way:

Rod Gardner
Freddie Mitchell
David Terrell
Koren Robinson
Ashley Lelie
Charles Rogers
Bryant Johnson
Michael Jenkins
Rashaun Woods
Braylon Edwards
Mike Williams
Matt Jones
Roddy White
(and some will argue that Michael Clayton deserves to be on this list)

Then look at round 3 and later for the same time period and you find the following WRs that are starters/contributors to their teams:
Steve Smith
TJ Houshmandzadeh
Ronald Curry
David Givens
Brandon Lloyd
Nate Burleson
Bernard Berrian
Ernest Wilford
Patrick Crayton
and this year there is Marcus Colston in NO.

Based on the drafts since 01 to me it is a scarey proposition to take a WR in the first round. 

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

You Got BUCd Up

***
Second String

Posts : 132
Offline
#72 : December 31, 2006, 07:25:29 AM

Pirates,
If you look at the drafts since 2001, the number of high round draft choices at WR that have been busts is pretty amazing.  Here is a list of the players that were taken in the first 2 rounds 01-05 that have been busts or are headed that way:

Rod Gardner
Freddie Mitchell
David Terrell -
Koren Robinson
Ashley Lelie
Charles Rogers
Bryant Johnson
Michael Jenkins
Rashaun Woods
Braylon Edwards
Mike Williams
Matt Jones
Roddy White
(and some will argue that Michael Clayton deserves to be on this list)

Then look at round 3 and later for the same time period and you find the following WRs that are starters/contributors to their teams:
Steve Smith
TJ Houshmandzadeh
Ronald Curry
David Givens
Brandon Lloyd
Nate Burleson
Bernard Berrian
Ernest Wilford
Patrick Crayton
and this year there is Marcus Colston in NO.

Based on the drafts since 01 to me it is a scarey proposition to take a WR in the first round. 

 :o, and the nominee for PR's 2006 "Most Incompetent Person" goes too............



"People make themselves out to be idiots... I'm just here to help them realize it."

Hallelujah holla back...



Guest
#73 : December 31, 2006, 08:37:26 AM

First of all Joey is not going to teach Calvin anything as he even said it himself - he will be a good teammate but he has no plans of ever showing a guy what it takes to take his job - he said this on one of his radio shows a few weeks ago.  Michael Clayton runs better routes than Calvin Johnson yet he gets ripped all the time now so I don't care how many or how few posts some make drafting Calvin Johnson makes no sense what so ever.  We have spent a 1st round pick on Clayton, 3rd on Stovall and countless others on Brackins, Paris Warren and others so this is a position that we have wasted picks on and I do not want to see us waste another pick on a WR.  Gaines Adams has shown for four years that he is a player and again, put him with Simeon and we have a great pass rushing tandem.  Some of you think we can just sign Freeney or any other DL although there are other teams out there that can bid with us or even out bid us as they do not have as many needs as we do.  We have screwed ourselves over the past few years as had we drafted Mark Anderson rather than Julian Jenkins or any other players rather than the offensive guys no longer on this team we may not have this many holes.  This is on Gruden and Monte's heads.

Hmmm...that's not what he said.  He was talking about the QB situation, IIRC, and said that it takes a special attitude to groom the guy who will take your job.
Page: 1 ... 3 4 5
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Calvin Johnson??????? « previous next »
:

Hide Tools Show Tools