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#30 : October 11, 2006, 02:01:01 PM

It sure was.  Gotta give credit where it is due.  It wasn't based on potential, AD actually came out and stiffed a very good Will Smith.  Hopefully, next week he keeps the ball rolling.   :)

And he looked quick on the outside on run plays as well.  On a 3rd and 4, we ran Caddy to the outside and AD kept 3 tacklers off of our back long enough to gain 7.

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#31 : October 11, 2006, 02:02:30 PM

I don't think anyone has said AD was great.  I've always said that the guy has the desire and some tools to work with.  On top of all of that his work ethic and the way he goes about his business can't be questioned.  Unless your name is Dalbuc. ;)  But I digress...For the money and the effort you get I think he's still your guy at LT.  Now if our illustrious FO feels that is the pick then I'm sure we'd have gone after one.  I'm almost sure they tried in the offseason.  I'm not totally opposed to moving AD either.  But I think he'll round out to a better LT than most of you want to give him credit for, but again that's JMO...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#32 : October 11, 2006, 02:04:07 PM

The only thing I don't really like about moving Buenning to center is that he's been our best and most consistant lineman, why mess with success? He already knows his position, is playing it well enough to see a possible Probowl bearth somewhere down the line. Why move him to a new position?

If we need a center, draft or buy a new one. JMO.

With the cap space we have this year, I think we can find and afford good backup players. Terry and Mahan will get fair offers from Bruce to stick around. Yatta's under contract, but I think his leg/knee is not going to get better and his skills are only going to decline.

Agreed...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!




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#33 : October 11, 2006, 02:12:40 PM

Here's my point in relation to the OL and how things look right now on both sides of the ball:  I think that there are numerous positions on the Defensive side of the ball where there is greater need than on the OL, provided the OL continues to progress this year.  I may reassess before the year is over, but for now, that's my feeling.

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#34 : October 11, 2006, 03:01:26 PM

Okay,

Don't have time to research this today or even tomorrow. But I'll get back to you on this. In order to be fair it's got to have some measurables beyond simple opinion.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

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#35 : October 11, 2006, 03:45:27 PM

I'd love it because I'm dead curious to see you wheel out the names of the LOT's you think Chev's Love Child is better than. I always ask this and no one will ever rattle off names of guys because I'm fascinated to see what players you think he's in the league of- and to see if you get past 5 names.

Because no one cares about those guys.  We only care about ours...We depend on you to tell us how bad our guys are compared to the rest of the league...You do such a great job of it...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#36 : October 11, 2006, 04:10:13 PM

Dal,

Had a moment and drifted over to FootballOutsiders.com to see if they had any stats on offensive line performance. Turns out that they do have some for 2006 which are only complete through week 3 (which they say to only take with a grain of salt), but they do have a full season's performance from 2005.

Here is a link to the 2005 data: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2005.php

There is some interesting information here. In 2005, The outsiders has our offensive line ranked #19 in run blocking and 25th based solely on sacks. Which pretty much mirrors what people thought about our line last season, better run blockers than pass blockers.

However, drop down to the next chart. Check out TB and it shows that the Adjusted line yardage when our RB ran over the left end was 4.46 ypc ranking 9th and when going over the left tackle it was 4.61 ranking 8th in ALY.  At least as far as statistics go, AD ranked better than KC's Orlando Pace who placed 10th on the list. Okay, Pace is a better, much better LT than Davis - but Davis, statistically had better run production with Caddy running behind him than Pace did with Jackson.

I still need to check out things like penalties and sacks allowed and perhaps I can access KC Joyners site and get some information on blocking percentage in 2005. I don't think anyone has much information on 2006 yet. But I would hope that if I showed that statistically AD was better than some LT's last season, and you admit that he's playing better this season. You would at least concede that there are LT's out there that are worse than AD.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

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#37 : October 11, 2006, 04:10:52 PM

I understand that moving Buenning to C is an odd thing due to the fact that he is our most stable Oline guy and may play at a probowl level.  But that is like saying you are the smartest kid in the slow class.  It doesn't really matter because all the people around you are stupid.  If Davis would make a better G and Buenning would make a strong C then we just upgraded our Oline without the draft, add in a FA/Draft pick and this line should be ready to roll next year.  With that Group of guys there should be no reason for poor play.  If people are willing to make a high selection at center then why not make the changes and take a T high agian or pick one up in FA?  If it doesn't work with Buenning then you move him back to guard and keep Davis around as a backup.  There isn't anything wrong with change when it is for the better, as we have seen when you dont make changes for the better the ship sinks because everybody else in the league is improving.


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#38 : October 11, 2006, 04:21:42 PM

Id like to see us maybe draft a Center this year, but that would be it. We need to focus at least 2 of our first 3 draft picks on the Defense, particularly the D-Line.

I think Davis and Buenning have shored up the left side of the line, particularly in pass pro this.

Im still not sold on Wade as our Center, id like to see Mahan given a chance there one Joseph returns since we are now building to next year.

As for the right hand side, Joseph and Trueblood are the future, and only time will tell whether they can adapt and solidfy their side of the O-Line.

\"We are frustrated at not making the playoffs. It is a good start. That is all it is. It is a good start for something that we are going to be in the future. - Josh Freeman

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#39 : October 11, 2006, 04:25:52 PM

Buck,

Picking up a franchise LT is pretty close to a pipe dream. Teams that have them, don't usually let them go and even the sure fire draft picks don't aways work out (Robert Gallery anyone).  

At some point we need to start addressing the defense high. Spending another day one pick on the offensive line doesn't seem prudent when we have obvious holes in the defense that need to be shored up. And lets remember that the draft isn't a sure fix either, especially on the defensive line. Ask Dal about his 1st round draft analysis from a couple of years ago about offensive/defensive linemen chosen in the 1st round. Defensive linemen were almost a 50/50 split between star and bust and offensive line was either only slightly better or slightly worse. (Picking a linebacker in the first round though was almost always a success).

You can get a good center in the 4th or 5th round or in FA. Centers are arguably easier to replace than a guard and most definately a tackle and you don't find 'good' tackles in FA (servicable maybe, but good or better are rare).  

So if center is the problem, replace the center. No need to reshuffle the line.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

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#40 : October 11, 2006, 04:36:52 PM

I don't have a problem with Davis at T I have a problem with Mahan/Wade at C.  I think that if we get a better C the line will be tons better.  The only reason I like moving Davis to G is because I think that he could be a probowler there, just MHO.  I think that Davis has shown solid improvement since he has been drafted and he is only in his third year.  Untill he stops improving you cant say that he will not be a probowl T and those guys can play for a long time.  I want to see what Mahan can do at C if they think thats where he is going to shine because he shins like a rusty nail at G.  If he isn't going to be the future then draft somebody.  I have always kind of like Terry but if he cant beat out Mahan he must be bad so giving his a shot at learning C would probably also be a waste.


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#41 : October 11, 2006, 04:49:26 PM

Buck,

You could be right about AD being a better G than T - but until we find a better T than him how can we even consider this move? There is no prospects on the team, there isn't likely to be a better LT in FA and getting one in the draft is pretty close to slim (and you don't want to start a rookie there anyway).

Wade hasn't played horrible at C - I know he's getting older, but Mahan hasn't seemed to show that he can outplay a 30 year old at C so I honestly don't think he's the answer at center either. I suspect we'll target a C in FA and probably draft another in R5 and either let both Wade and Mahan walk or bring Mahan back as a OL reserve.

Again, our line problems have been on the right side. Lets get that fixed before we start addressing the parts of the line that are at least playing decently.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

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#42 : October 11, 2006, 05:12:20 PM

Again, our line problems have been on the right side. Lets get that fixed before we start addressing the parts of the line that are at least playing decently.

Agreed. Hopefully DJ and Trueblood can pick their stuff up and AT LEAST break even with the left side of the line by the end of the year, or build a lot of momentum going into next year.


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#43 : October 11, 2006, 06:04:55 PM

Ask again in 4 weeks.


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#44 : October 11, 2006, 07:03:45 PM

I understand that moving Buenning to C is an odd thing due to the fact that he is our most stable Oline guy and may play at a probowl level.  But that is like saying you are the smartest kid in the slow class.

Buenning has played well for any standards, not just our "slow class" OL standards. Poor comparison. 

It doesn't really matter because all the people around you are stupid.  If Davis would make a better G and Buenning would make a strong C then we just upgraded our Oline without the draft, add in a FA/Draft pick and this line should be ready to roll next year.

Huh? We didn't just upgrade our OL by moving guys to positions that WE DON'T KNOW HOW THEY WILL PERFORM AT! We just shuffled guys around and instead of having a big hole at center, we have a big hole at LT. If you ask me, taking the lack of experience in consideration and that LT is arguably more important than center, we just downgraded the OL.

With that Group of guys there should be no reason for poor play.  If people are willing to make a high selection at center then why not make the changes and take a T high agian or pick one up in FA?  If it doesn't work with Buenning then you move him back to guard and keep Davis around as a backup.  There isn't anything wrong with change when it is for the better, as we have seen when you dont make changes for the better the ship sinks because everybody else in the league is improving.

High selection at center would be a 2nd rounder, and we could arguably get the best prospect at that position with our projected high draft spot. On the other hand, a high selection at tackle would almost asuredly be our 1st, a top 5 pick as it stands now. Big diff buddy.

We need to shore up the center position. Guards are looking good (if Davin is as advertised), tackles are good enough. Center is still crap. I agree with whoever said grab Young in the 2nd. Trade up if you have to. A good center with size doesn't come along very often, I'd be willing to part with a future 3rd or so to move up and nab him.
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