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yuccaneers

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: September 24, 2008, 03:44:26 PM

With the amount of wasted picks on players that cant seem to produce or even make the team for one reason or other. When does Allen decide it is time to shake up the scouting department?

Marquise Walker 3rd rounder
Travis Stephens 4th rounder
Chris Colmer 3rd rounder
Marquis Cooper 3rd rounder
Alan Zematis 4th rounder
Maruice Stovall 3rd rounder
Dre Moore 4th rounder
and the jury is still out on Dexter Jackson 2nd rounder.

That is eight picks who have either been wasted or on the verge of looking really bad. By question is does this fall solely on the scouting department? Not going to play the card or the team could have picked this player in that round game.

Just looking for honest answers If the scouting department needs to have a shake up and should some of the blame be place on Bruce Allen?

I mean that is 4 third round picks, 3 fourth round picks and a second rounder with the way turtle boy is playing. That would be huge if some of those picks would have panned out. When you add players like Clayton and Williams to the mix who seem to either have regressed greatly or cant seem to get out of bed without getting injured it only magnifies the problem the past few seasons when it comes to the draft and the long term stability and future of this franchise.


MBF

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#1 : September 24, 2008, 03:45:28 PM

I'm all for getting some new personnel guys and certainly some new scouts.

gharen

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#2 : September 24, 2008, 03:52:05 PM

I remember when we first started getting good, that the draft motto was to draft players from winning programs that had produced a lot in college. That seemed to work pretty well, then slowly weve gotten away from that. I've noticed we've taken chances a little more often on guys who might have potential and it's not working out. I think we've also passed on some really good players just to fill a need and that has hurt us as well.

Feel Real Good

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#3 : September 24, 2008, 03:52:42 PM

At the very least Walker and Stephens were way before Allen got here, unless you're saying the same scouts who evaluated those players are still with the team.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Simms2Clayton05

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#4 : September 24, 2008, 03:52:49 PM

i agree. The bucs havent been great in drafting. Not alot of teams are though. Tough to find out which guys are gonna translate it to the big game and who wont. Some teams get lucky and others dont.

goldengeese

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#5 : September 24, 2008, 03:56:14 PM

Its hard to effectively assign blame for all of those picks since they were made under 2 different general managers (McKay, Allen) , 3 different directors of college scouting (Ruskell, Webster, Hickey) and who knows how many different area scouts (i'm assuming they weren't all the same guy).

In the same vein, the Buccaneers have effectively found undrafted free agents like Donald Penn and Elbert Mack who make contributions, took Jovan Haye off of a practice squad, traded for contributors like Michael Bennett, Brian Griese, signed unnoticed free agents like Askew, Gilmore, Wilkerson, Bryant, Stevens, etc...

every team has hits, every team has misses. its just that most fans remember other teams hits and their own teams misses, that's true for all teams' fans, not just ours

MBF

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#6 : September 24, 2008, 03:57:08 PM

I remember when we first started getting good, that the draft motto was to draft players from winning programs that had produced a lot in college. That seemed to work pretty well, then slowly weve gotten away from that. I've noticed we've taken chances a little more often on guys who might have potential and it's not working out. I think we've also passed on some really good players just to fill a need and that has hurt us as well.
The thing is that we have kept doing that-draft the polished, productive players from big programs with an emphasis on high character. We've kept drafting those types of players at the expense of taking a risk on a guy who maybe didn't play up to his potential in college, but has the measurables and a high ceiling. Talib was that type of pick, a risk, but he was a good pick nonetheless. This team doesn't take enough risks, and while it's okay to 'play it safe' once in a while, eventually you have to throw caution to the wind and draft the BPA. I'm not saying jump on the Chris Johnsons and workout warriors of this world, but a few more Talib's could go a long way towards building a contender.

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#7 : September 24, 2008, 03:58:50 PM

I'm all for trading away our 2nd day picks for proven veterans of at least respectable performance instead of hoping to hit a Tom Brady in the draft. Leave our 1st and 2nd picks to the scouts.


yuccaneers

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#8 : September 24, 2008, 04:02:29 PM

But missing on so many picks through the first three or four rounds coupled with the fact the team gave a kings ransom to get Gruden has only compounded the lack of quality talent on this team. For a team to have basically missed on

4 first rounders( 2 for gruden / clayton/williams)
3 second rounders(2 for gruden/ jackson)
4 third rounders(stovall/ colmer/ walker / cooper)
3 fourth rounders( stephens / moore/ zematis)

That 14 picks in the first four rounds since 2002 even with it highly unlikely the team hits on all of them if even 3 would have panned out this team would be alot further along on the offensive skill positions seeing as  three receivers and two running backs were chosen, not telling what the team would have done if it had the picks for Gruden. But the bad drafting has crippled the offense more then some may think.


Feel Real Good

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#9 : September 24, 2008, 04:03:59 PM

I remember when we first started getting good, that the draft motto was to draft players from winning programs that had produced a lot in college. That seemed to work pretty well, then slowly weve gotten away from that. I've noticed we've taken chances a little more often on guys who might have potential and it's not working out. I think we've also passed on some really good players just to fill a need and that has hurt us as well.
I think the Bucs have continued that. Clayton, Williams, Ruud, Joseph, and Talib played for very successful and/or storied college programs. When it comes to picking players, you have to be good and lucky. There's no set formula. Perhaps the most talented team in the NFL, the Chargers, got that was with a nose tackle from the supplemental draft, a defensive end who tested positive for steroids at the Combine, a left tackle with a back disease, a corner who started two games in college, a D-2 corner, a D-1AA receiver, and the list goes on.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.



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#10 : September 24, 2008, 04:12:44 PM

I wouldn't be opposed to a shake up of the scouting department. One should mention that we have had some success drafting offensive lineman, other than Chris Colmer. Anyone know the name of the disease he was diagnosed with?

STULAAKE

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#11 : September 24, 2008, 04:22:17 PM

jury still out on Stovall, Moore, as well as DJ...IMO...and untill Clayton and Carnell are no longer with this team, I would not consider them "wasted picks."

You must be accountable for your actions!

SunnyD

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#12 : September 24, 2008, 04:58:25 PM

 I think it's time for some new scouts.

We also need an offense heavy draft.

I liked what the Redskins did taking Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly on the first day and I believe the Bucs should do something similar.

If we can nab an UT in FA I wouldn't bat an eye at a nearly pure offensive draft. I believe the defense has the pieces in place.

Thats just me

Feel Real Good

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#13 : September 24, 2008, 05:05:13 PM

I think the biggest problem, which I've enunciated a million times, is the priority of the picks. It's just so weird to spend premium picks on non-premium positions like guard, right tackle, top 5 running back, strongside linebacker, backup guard, and backup safety, when premium positions like quarterback, #1 receiver, left tackle, and defensive line are so undermanned.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

king_frog

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#14 : September 24, 2008, 05:20:21 PM

Does anyone know who our scouts are ?? How many are hold overs from Dungys regime ??
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