Gruden, Allen will be back in 2008

I hope Cummings is wrong and the Glazers are still considering canning Gruden. I think it's possible they might have learned from their mistakes when they fired Dungy and are waiting until they have a new coach signed on the dotted line before firing the one they have. Perhaps after the superbowl we'll know for sure.

Well being the Bucs VP you should know this stuff, but no he's safe.

[alldaway]

I hope Cummings is wrong and the Glazers are still considering canning Gruden. I think it's possible they might have learned from their mistakes when they fired Dungy and are waiting until they have a new coach signed on the dotted line before firing the one they have. Perhaps after the superbowl we'll know for sure.

That is a possiblity but waiting that long puts the new coaching staff into a huge disadvantage for free agency, combine. senior bowl, and the draft.

If a decision will be made it will have to be this week but it does not look like it.

[Boid Fink]

Once again, they aren't going anywhere (for at least another year)

And when they rebound, I hope all the naysayers just SHUT THE HELL UP AND EAT SOME ROTTEN CROW!

Once again, they aren't going anywhere (for at least another year)

And when they rebound, I hope all the naysayers just SHUT THE HELL UP AND EAT SOME ROTTEN CROW!

Uh-oh....Dal and Guru are now going to call you a Grudenista...

[Boid Fink]

Once again, they aren't going anywhere (for at least another year)

And when they rebound, I hope all the naysayers just SHUT THE HELL UP AND EAT SOME ROTTEN CROW!

Uh-oh....Dal and Guru are now going to call you a Grudenista...

I could care less.

I know Gruden has learned a lot from losing, and things will change.  Gruden is a smart football coach, and will have a boatload of talent to work with.  He is going to even the keel out for sure.  How much worse can it get?  New facility, some money, draft picks...he finally has it all.

Once again, they aren't going anywhere (for at least another year)

And when they rebound, I hope all the naysayers just SHUT THE HELL UP AND EAT SOME ROTTEN CROW!

Uh-oh....Dal and Guru are now going to call you a Grudenista...

I could care less.

I know Gruden has learned a lot from losing, and things will change. Gruden is a smart football coach, and will have a boatload of talent to work with. He is going to even the keel out for sure. How much worse can it get? New facility, some money, draft picks...he finally has it all.

Bingo, and a stud LT would make the offense look 10 times better instantly, but since Jordan Black isn't a FA I guess that schmuck Joe Thomas will do.

[Bucsvp]

I hope Cummings is wrong and the Glazers are still considering canning Gruden. I think it's possible they might have learned from their mistakes when they fired Dungy and are waiting until they have a new coach signed on the dotted line before firing the one they have. Perhaps after the superbowl we'll know for sure.

That is a possibility but waiting that long puts the new coaching staff into a huge disadvantage for free agency, combine. senior bowl, and the draft.

If a decision will be made it will have to be this week but it does not look like it.

Of course if you're thinking about hiring an assistant that is currently coaching a playoff team then you couldn't make a move until that team's season is officially over. The same goes for free agents that are still under contract on those playoff teams. You can't sign them, you can't even talk about signing them until the season's over.

[alldaway]

Yeah but there is a big difference between assistant coaches/free agent players and the roles they play compared to a head coach.

[njligernj]

Great coaches never, ever have 3 losing seasons out of 4.  Gruden is not a great, or even good coach right now.  No hate, no conspiricies.  He just needs to go. 

 Well, since you said it.

Guess who?

| 1991 cle |   6  10
| 1992 cle |   7   9
| 1993 cle |   7   9
| 1994 cle |  11   5
| 1995 cle |   5  11
| 2000 nwe |   5  11

Guess who?

| 1968 cin |   3  11   0
| 1969 cin |   4   9   1
| 1970 cin |   8   6   0
| 1971 cin |   4  10   0

Guess who?

| 1960 dal |   0  11   1
| 1961 dal |   4   9   1
| 1962 dal |   5   8   1
| 1963 dal |   4  10   0
| 1964 dal |   5   8   1
| 1965 dal |   7   7   0

| 1985 dal |  10   6   0
| 1986 dal |   7   9   0
| 1987 dal |   7   8   0
| 1988 dal |   3  13

[dalbuc]

I know Gruden has learned a lot from losing, and things will change

He learned a lot from his last 5-11 outing and made sure that never happened....oh crap. Sorry.

[dalbuc]

Once again, they aren't going anywhere (for at least another year)

And when they rebound, I hope all the naysayers just SHUT THE HELL UP AND EAT SOME ROTTEN CROW!

BTW, why do the Grudenista think they have some monopoly on what is said on this board? Everytime there's a thread asking about Gruden's tenure there's alwso some Grudenista suck-up trying to prove his faith by shouting "shut up" or "You are an idiot". Then they promptly start threads asking why the quality of debate on this board has gone down. Gee can't figure it out.

I think after a 4-12 thrashing the franchise took questions about the coach and his ability to lead the team seem to be relevant. You can't fathom that but that's YOUR problem. So take you own advise and shut up and stop reading threads that you know are gonna anger you.

[CurtR1995]

Great coaches never, ever have 3 losing seasons out of 4. Gruden is not a great, or even good coach right now. No hate, no conspiricies. He just needs to go.

 Well, since you said it.

Guess who?

| 1991 cle | 6 10
| 1992 cle | 7 9
| 1993 cle | 7 9
| 1994 cle | 11 5
| 1995 cle | 5 11
| 2000 nwe | 5 11

Guess who?

| 1968 cin | 3 11 0
| 1969 cin | 4 9 1
| 1970 cin | 8 6 0
| 1971 cin | 4 10 0

Guess who?

| 1960 dal | 0 11 1
| 1961 dal | 4 9 1
| 1962 dal | 5 8 1
| 1963 dal | 4 10 0
| 1964 dal | 5 8 1
| 1965 dal | 7 7 0

| 1985 dal | 10 6 0
| 1986 dal | 7 9 0
| 1987 dal | 7 8 0
| 1988 dal | 3 13

Excellent work.

Now, here is your problem.  Landry had an expansion team back when an expansion team really meant something.  By 1988, the game had clearly passed him by.  Despite his *past* (emphasis on past) record, guess what?  They fired him and brought on a coach who was better for the team at the time.  Gruden didnt inherit an expansion team, he has just turned it into one with his inspired drafts and FA disasters, so I guess in way there are some mirror similarities.

Belichik was legitimately a bad HC coach when he was with the Browns.  A great defensive coordinator to be sure, but his running Metcalf up the middle just because the fans and press said it was dumb was his way of showing everyone who is boss.  Belichick needed to be fired so that he could retool his way of coaching, at least as a HC.  Without his dose of humble pie, he would not have been the coach he is today. 

I honestly don't remember who coached the Bengals back then except to say that they were an expansion team back then too, so I hope you are not refering to a finished and LOOOONNNNNGGGG Past his Prime Paul Brown as your "proof."

[dalbuc]

The real problem with the Bellicheck example is that he screwed the pooch early on in his career as an HC, you also see that with Landry's early body of work and even Parcells' first year. That logic fails in the Gruden era here since you are looking at his "mature" body of work. The fact that he's grown into a coach that has disasterous campaigns rather than one who grows out of it should worry the original poster.

[Boid Fink]

Once again, they aren't going anywhere (for at least another year)

And when they rebound, I hope all the naysayers just SHUT THE HELL UP AND EAT SOME ROTTEN CROW!

BTW, why do the Grudenista think they have some monopoly on what is said on this board? Everytime there's a thread asking about Gruden's tenure there's alwso some Grudenista suck-up trying to prove his faith by shouting "shut up" or "You are an idiot". Then they promptly start threads asking why the quality of debate on this board has gone down. Gee can't figure it out.

I think after a 4-12 thrashing the franchise took questions about the coach and his ability to lead the team seem to be relevant. You can't fathom that but that's YOUR problem. So take you own advise and shut up and stop reading threads that you know are gonna anger you.

Who is angry?

I am just stating my opinion in the same way some think it is cute and sly to call others Grudenistas.

The fact of the matter is, it is not all on the coach.  If you can just see the players making the plays (or not see it), then you will understand there is only so much a coach can do.  Woulda coulda shoulda means nothing, sure.  But I think given Grudens scenario over the past three years, the fact he won the south with a trashed roster, and this years injury plague, I tend to become more half full given Grudens overall body of work.  He has won a lot of games, and has been forced to play with a shorted deck.  Excuses can come from all angles, can't they?

Next year, Gruden makes people eat a lot of Crow, mark the words...

[dalbuc]

Who is angry?

The fact of the matter is, it is not all on the coach.  If you can just see the players making the plays (or not see it), then you will understand there is only so much a coach can do. 

Angry, usually caps and exclamation points indicate yelling and shut the hell up isn't usually shouted in a joyous way. Your culture might be different though?

In a press conference Bill Bellichek was asked about a deep pass completed on a blown assignment vs. his team. His response, "We don't have a play where no one covers the WR." Nice comback. No coach draws up bad plays, the coach's job is to get players to execute their assignments. When he can't do that (see Gruden, John and his offense for 5 years running) the coach takes the heat for it.