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Itchalot

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: October 11, 2006, 10:12:56 PM

With Davin getting the start, that makes six offensive starters from the last two drafts.  Last year:  Caddy, Buenning and Smith.  This year:  Joseph, Trueblood and Gradkowski.   

Is somebody going to give the Bucs braintrust some props?  Either they drafted some good players or some players we really needed.  Either way they did a pretty good job as things stand right now. More than half of the offensive starters were drafted in the last two years. 

What is the best solution?  Cleaning house of the entire organization or putting this same braintrust to work on the defensive side?


simms22

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#1 : October 11, 2006, 10:17:03 PM

while i agree they have been somewhat successful on offense,  trueblood and davin havent proved anything yet. Our draft this year needs to be mostly defensive and hopefully this regime will have more success than some of its picks( Cooper comes to mind). Our team this year has suffered because of the lack of drafting defense year after year and only getting older and older.

alldaway

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#2 : October 11, 2006, 10:22:59 PM

Well at this point all are unproven.  With that said Gradkowski, Clayton, Stovall, Carnell, Smith, Buenning, Joseph, and Trueblood all look to be promising.  Of those players we have yet to see Stovall and Joseph with significant playing time.

With that said if the Bucs offense sputters along the way then you will see a house cleaning.  If the offense shows improvement throuhout the year the Bucs braintrust will be back for one more year to remold the defense.  I feel Ruud will be a good player for this system as well as Zemaitis. 




Itchalot

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#3 : October 11, 2006, 10:30:37 PM

Yes they haven't drafted defense, but when you look at the fact that the guys they did draft are starting right now that tells you they were really needed to make those picks on offense.  Every team has its Coopers and Colmers, guys who were drafted in the 3rd or 4th round where you should get a good player but you didn't.

And another thing.  Nothing against you in specific, simms, but where were these "Shoulda drafted defense" people before the season?  I'll tell you where they were. Solidly in the "fine" category.  I wish we had the archives.  I had a thread going about how the defense was getting old.  The response was "We're the #1 defense.  I'm not worried.  We'll be fine."

"I'm not worried. Not worried at all"
"We'll be fine. Fine Fine Fine Fine Fine."
"#1 defense, Top 5 defense"
"#55 won't let things slip...."

If you posted one of these posts in the preseason please come clean now. Admit YOu WERE WRONG!


alldaway

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#4 : October 11, 2006, 10:38:54 PM

To be honest I am still not that worried.  A lot of the problems on the Bucs defense can be corrected this year.  Once some  veteran defensive players are benched and other players are given oppurtunity I feel the defense will improve.   The problem areas most of us indentified the last few years are still problem areas. I mean it is no shock as to the Bucs needing an undertackle.

If the Bucs address DT, DE, and CB I think they will be in good shape on the defensive side of the ball.

You have to understand the one knock I have against this coaching staff is they are reluctant to letting younger players play when they are superior than their veteran counterparts who are starters.

It took a losing seaosn to put the young players on offense at starting spots.  A few more losses and I want to see what Ruud, Cash, Winborn, Zemaitis, and Bennett can bring to the table.  It makes no sense in my opinion as to why Stovall was inactive for so long.  He made his presence felt in his first game in the regular season where he was active.  I suspect that Winborn and Zemaitis deserve to be activated on gamedays.  I mean they might suprise and provide a boost on defense?  It is worth a try I think.


OpTiOnMaStA

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#5 : October 11, 2006, 10:44:01 PM

The problem on defense comes in when you realize that all at the same time the defense has lost a step. It isn't as though this happened one player at a time. At this point Brooks is looking rather slow, Barber is looking like he forgot how to tackle and is slower, our safeties never panned out (well at least Phillips...Allen still has time to prove that he is what we think he can be), McFarland is done getting passes and just hasn't produced, Rice and Spires appear to be slowing down and Quarles looks slower and older than ever.

The people who said we don't need to draft defense were right at the time. We didn't need defense at that point but we did need offense and fast. Our OL has been the worst unit on the team for years. We needed to address that and I am still not sold that we have finished addressing that. We don't have a single WR left from our Super Bowl run so we needed to address that. Pittman couldn't be our feature back so we needed to go out and draft a back, we have been through QBs like our team was a revolving door so we had to address that in the 6th round (not that this isn't good value or that a 6th rounder is really expected to have that much of an impact anyways), and we needed a TE who could catch the ball because Dilger got old. We addressed offense with good reason in the draft. Also, a lack of cash in free agency forced us to build only through the draft. If we had some cash then we could have got some free agents in here to make an impact but that didn't happen.

The good news is that we can go out and get some free agents this year. Retooling the defense should be easier if we can draft well and pick up one or two free agents that can come in and be immediate starters. We need a UT big time. If we had production at that position we would be singing a different tune right now I think. No disruption makes everybody else on defense look bad. A good UT would help this defense out more than any other position. We also need a safety and probably another pass rushing DE.

Itchalot

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#6 : October 11, 2006, 10:46:41 PM

All-da-way.  Your criticism should be directed specifically at Monte Kiffin.  He decides what defensive players to start.  I'm talking more about Gruden and Allen and the scouting staff.  

I have to disagree.  I don't think Monte is the main problem.


alldaway

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#7 : October 12, 2006, 05:45:08 AM

All-da-way.  Your criticism should be directed specifically at Monte Kiffin.  He decides what defensive players to start.  I'm talking more about Gruden and Allen and the scouting staff. 

I have to disagree.  I don't think Monte is the main problem.

I said coaching staff.  ;D That includes Monte, Muir, Bissacia, and Gruden and the rest of the coaches.  And  it does not mean Monte is the main problem but Monte and Gruden share the same weakness as well as the rest of the coaches.  In that they at times have a long leash of loyalty to veteran starters who should be on the bench or give way to a younger player. The other problem I have with this coaching staff is I do not understand the roster moves they are making this year at all???

Why did it have to come to an 0-3 start for Gruden to activate Stovall? How come Zemaitis has yet to be activated on gameday?  Why has Bissacia decided that Mallard is better than Winborn for special teams?  Why has Muir decided that Mahan is better than Jeb?  Why did Muir decide to keep so few OL on the roster?  Why did the defensive staff keep so many LB's but so few DL's where the Bucs are sorely lacking now without a decent rotation?  Why did Paris Warren take the 7th spot at WR and is inactive at this point in time? If Fonoti was not needed as a third OT on short yardage and goal line situations why did I see a WR like Michael Clayton lined up as a short yardage blocker in the Saints game?  Will the coaching staff make the tough decisions to bench Quarles and Brooks at some point in the year if the losses continue to pile up?

I do not mind watching young players (or older veterans) play if I feel there is a unified direction of the team or a purpose even if they have a losing record.  At this point the Bucs roster moves and personnel moves on gamedays leaves me perplexed.   Maybe with a few more losses they start to consider the younger players on D (along with Winborn) hopefully and maybe involve Stovall a little bit more on offense? I hope so.



coopsxx

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#8 : October 12, 2006, 05:49:03 AM

Lets be honest even if we had drafted defense this year, the money that booger phillips rice, hell all r defensive guys are making would have ensured they started.

Not to mention we were the no1 d last year. Imagine if we replaced guys and this was happening, what would you all be saying.

alldaway

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#9 : October 12, 2006, 05:57:44 AM

Imagine if we replaced guys and this was happening, what would you all be saying.

I do not care how much money they make nor what ranking they had last year.  If they are not good enough this year and the backups are just as good I say let the backups play.  Trotting out there every Sunday the same players will most likely yield you the same results.  That is why Booger must be the first one to be benched. 

keeponbucn

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#10 : October 12, 2006, 08:04:16 AM

The coaches wanted to ride this D for one more year, they made a mistake. This draft will be focused on the defensive side of the ball, it has to be. The FO has rebuilt this offense over the past three drafts and will now work on the D.

alldaway

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#11 : October 12, 2006, 08:43:22 AM

I do not think it was a mistake to try to ride the D for one more year and have to blow it up after the season due to high cap figures of Rice, Spires, Wyms, and Booger.  We figured there would be a drop off becuase having the #1 D two years in a row was highly unlikely to begin with.  We figured they would still be a top ten/top fifteen defense.  As of now they are playing like a bottom ten defense.  Can they improve this year to a top ten/top fifteen defense by the seasons end?  Yes.  But it requires some changes to be made. I feel the coaching staff is to slow to make the necessary changes  to turn this D around which is what frustrates me the most.



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