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DefenseWins

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#30 : January 03, 2007, 02:03:45 PM

Keepon, they have bought Gruden's sales pitch. They only understand Gruden's agenda if they believe him.
You are on here all of the time. You have something to say about everyone's opinion. With the waqy that you offer advice, it seems only logical that you wou be tolerant of someone with a lot to say. Also, what is the plan? When asked, even Gruden doesnt know where to begin in fixing this team. His solution- to buy better athletes then the next. 

Gruden wants to skip coaching, and go onto calling glorious plays. Anyone see the Boise game? A fine example of how good coaching and execution defeat talent anyday. Guys who win a sprint race are not always the best for team!

Ladyfan- Great response. Thoughtful. lol





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DanTurksGhost

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#31 : January 03, 2007, 02:06:24 PM

Gruden wants to skip coaching, and go onto calling glorious plays.

You clearly haven't got a clue.



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#32 : January 03, 2007, 02:07:04 PM

I would love to see a new, defensive minded head coach in Tampa. But...exactly how does some of our assistants being offered higher positions around the league prove that Gruden has "soured" this organization?

doobiedoright

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#33 : January 03, 2007, 03:26:09 PM

It is obvious you are not a long time buc fan.
Most long time fans know that changing  coachs every couple of years is a bad idea!
Losser?.....dude we did become world champs under gru!




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#34 : January 03, 2007, 03:28:01 PM

LOL, what a stupid post....



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#35 : January 03, 2007, 03:34:52 PM

Be loyal to the team!!

Hmm... that's some good advice. Have you ever thought about trying it yourself?


Ladyfan

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#36 : January 03, 2007, 08:01:31 PM

wrong.  it was not thoughtful.  it was quick, and down and dirty....


DefenseWins

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#37 : January 03, 2007, 10:00:22 PM

Ok Ok. Everyone just settle down. Apparently I have upset the culture of losing that polices these boards.

I have been a fan since 1985. I understand a lot about where the org. comes from.  We should not accept being losers ever again. In the late nineties we shed our apathy and began to soar with the best in the league. As our team grew, so did our understanding of what it meant to win with pride.  Watching the Bucs finally turn into a respectable tough team was the absolute tops in my sports memories.
Although Dungy did not win the superbowl, we consistently played into the playoffs for years. We also had an identity as a smash-you-in-the-mouth, gritty team that ran the ball and played aggressive defense. Dungy and his staff were always developing and grooming the up and coming players with success.  Weisch (spelling?) deserves some credit too.
Under Gruden, the team shows little improvement. Any suggestions where I might look? Nothing about this team suggests that we are going to improve. Can anyone rationally suggest otherwise?

And I ask again.. Anyone see the Boise State game? That coach taught inferior atheletes how to execute and think better than their opponnents. That is the key ingredient with winning sports teams. Intelligent play is what wins you games. Now Gruden refers to wanting better "groceries". I insist, that will not cure his lack of coaching. Better players can help, but the system and teaching lead to results.

After the Giants game, Gruden went into the locker room and showed four plays with poor execution, suggesting that there waas nothing he could do, that it was not his fault. Forget about passing over 50 times with a rookie in "the windiest day" in Giants stadium.  Forget about #1 pick Caddy.
 It is true that Gruden cannot catch the passes, cannot throw the balls. However, how he coaches, motivates, and instills confidence and comfort is critical to the success of the team.

I am not insulted that many of you don't agree. I think if you are confident about how you come to decisions, there is no reasoned to be insecure or threatened by altenative ideas. :)

"Until Gruden leaves, this organization will suffer" -Me





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BucsGuru

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#38 : January 03, 2007, 10:04:35 PM

Be loyal to the team!!

Hmm... that's some good advice. Have you ever thought about trying it yourself?



Being loyal to the team doesn't mean you have to be loyal to gruden.

Itchalot

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#39 : January 03, 2007, 10:34:46 PM

Defense, name one of the coaches we could have kept.  They all got promotions to either DC or HC and sorry there are no openings for those guys with the Bucs.  There is no way to pin this on Gruden. 

You started this thread where you blame Gruden for something that he quite obviously has nothing to do with him, and you have no argument except "You can't ignore the decline" but you don't say how Gruden has anything to do with it.

Then you say you are the one confused! Well I'm confused about what the hell you started this thread for, when you don't know what you are talking about. I guess you just wanted to vent. I hope you feel better.

Now go home and do your homework and come back with some logic about the topic of this thread which you started!  ITS YOUR THREAD and when you can't defend your own thread you change the subject right in the middle to something about how Gruden sucks.  You tell everybody to calm down and then you go on about this and that about Gruden.  But that wasn't  the topic of the thread.  It was how the loss of these coaches was Gruden's fault. 

Or admit you had no logic to your post, which makes you either a flamer or a goober or a senseless basher.


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#40 : January 03, 2007, 10:36:39 PM

Anymore staff and players that are near and dear to the Bucs leaving? Well there are not many left. Gruden has soured this organization, sure that is arguable.

What is not arguable is the evidence. Look at all of the great people that make for a good organization fleeing the Bucs for the last 5 years..

Gruden wants yes men..."with me or against me"... Great minds don't think well in a box.

Gruden wants passion... Players don't play so inspired under dishonesty.

Fire Gruden Please!!!! The sooner the better!
Or maybe the coaches are leaving for better jobs?

Maranelli DL to HC
Tomlin DB to DC
Barry LB to DC


#SaveUsJohnnyFootball



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#41 : January 03, 2007, 10:39:58 PM

Anymore staff and players that are near and dear to the Bucs leaving? Well there are not many left. Gruden has soured this organization, sure that is arguable.

What is not arguable is the evidence. Look at all of the great people that make for a good organization fleeing the Bucs for the last 5 years..

Gruden wants yes men..."with me or against me"... Great minds don't think well in a box.

Gruden wants passion... Players don't play so inspired under dishonesty.

Fire Gruden Please!!!! The sooner the better!
Or maybe the coaches ore leaving for better jobs?

Maranelli DL to HC
Tomlin DB to DC
Barry LB to DC
Impossible, nobody likes promotions / raises +1

DefenseWins

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#42 : January 03, 2007, 10:59:38 PM

Itch, I can't understand why you'd get so upset. Yes I totally lost my point, and went on a tangent.  That has the tendency to happen when people criticise me for things off of topic, and when I blurt out my frustration. Point taken.

I guess what I originally meant to IMPLY not prove with evidence because that is impossible, is that many are jumping ship on Gruden.  The reasons that most of these guys are being promoted is because they were taught so well under Dungy and Kiffin.  You do not see the seamless or even semi-smooth transition. Rather what you see is a disjointed mess. When Gruden says, "either you are with or against me", on top of knowing what kind of tyrant that he is, the way he has handled players, etc, etc,etc, it is simple to assume that Gruden wants "yes" men, and not critical thought.

Kiffin is still here, but his depth in players is insufficient. I'd bet he would have liked a little bit more of Free agent/draft contribution, although his hands are tied. Gruden has to prioritise his disastrous offense. Again, I digress. 

Every year since Gruden has been here after the Superbowl, everything about the entire organization has gotten worse. That is the trend. Decline.

Is that the part of history that I ignore about the Bucs? Did I miss the point? Should we make excuses for losing coaches? Not a chance.





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Boid Fink

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#43 : January 03, 2007, 11:14:27 PM

You will hear from me. I'm sorry to be a jerk.. I am very frustrated that people on this board are so sold by this coach that fails to produce. It would be one thing if he were an obnoxious unsavory winner. I guess, I could deal with the lies. Although the minimal conception of ethics is acknowledging that unjust means do not justify the ends, I could understand why many would overlook his character for a winning season. Forget about being proud of the team, whatever...

But, to embrace this jerk, and argue FOR his tenure as a losing coach, during this super-vital time of rebuilding is a joke. I hope you all know, that if we keep Grudem this year, it is a long-term endorsement for him for the future. It is a scary time for the organization, and I wish that many of you out there would see this big-ass, scary picture.
Where the F were you when he won the South last year?  Was your head still lodged up your tight anus?

I guess you want to refund that Lombardi as well, since so many people that are Dungyists seem to think it was a small feat to accomplish...

You can say all Gruden is doing to secure his job is win the Lombardi, and the NFC South last year.  I have to say, what is sop hard to understand about that?

The man is a winner.  He is strapped in his ability to work miracles with less than watchable talent sometimes...the fact he won the South last year still amazes me. 

Gruden is a good head coach, who has a proven track record, is young and still learning, and will get better with time (think fine wine).  We all talk rebuild in one breath, and curse the man trying to rebirth the team in the next...fickle bunch.  And awfully choosy.

Some people say why isn't Gruden fired?  Is it because he is a blond, golden boy, a rock star more than a coach?  Because we drool over his posters?  Give it a rest.  You insult in one breath, and can't take the back-jawing you get when you get called a maroon for thinking this way.  One insult begets another in my book.

Think about his talent level and who is "squeezing" to make "juice" happen.  Next year, I think a lot of these threads and posters will fade away, and wind up feeling like jackasses for putting Gruden down so quickly.

Of course, you can always change your screen name, or say , "I have always wanted what is best for the Bucs!"....



DefenseWins

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#44 : January 04, 2007, 12:09:32 AM

Boid,
I was right down sitting by where the players come out of the tunnel. Last year was great, almost miraculous.

I don't suggest that we "refund" the trophy. Obviously, part of Dungy's influence was on that team. I is a fact. I do not detract one bit from what Chucky did that year. ....2002. But the present..

2 winning seasons in 5 years.

He is not a winner. Refer to his record here.

Track record on paper and with players is inconsistent.

I have never referred to Jon's flowing golden locks.

Gruden still can coach these guys. He should be accountable for their performance. Using the athletic ability as an excuse is pathetic and gutless as a coach. He never ceases to throw players under the bus. Many times, Gruden does not put them in a position to even compete, let alone win.  We'll see what he does with his toys next year I suppose.

Why would I change my screen name? It has to do with football.





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