Obama is right, we do need a change

[3paths]

The only problem is that it doesn't start with the president. The change we need is one amoungst ourselves. Here is a photo I snapped with my phone as I was leaving Walmart tonight. Unfortunately the quality here isn't great so let me explain what it is. You have a 30 somthing strapping a $800-$1000 42 inch Visio Plasma/LCD to the roof of his $2000 Nissan Sentra.



Now this guy may really be a millionaire for all I know, but for some reason I doubt it. It just seems like yet another real life example of why our economy is in ruin. It's because we have created a culture where people believe they should have all the things they can't afford, and in most cases aren't willing to work hard enough to really afford. The American definition of afford is simply that you are able to present a method of payment that will cover the asking price.

Here's my favorite part. I really wish I would have had a better camera with me when I snapped this photo, but there is a bumper sticker on this guy's car. Can anyone guess what it is? If you are guessing a George Bush or John McCain sticker you guessed wrong. It is a Hispanics for Change sticker, with the now famous Obama logo. But I guess it's George Bush's fault that he's in debt and things need to change. He may actually have to hold down a job right now, and under Obama perhaps he will be able to collect a welfare check while sitting on his butt all day doing nothing playing video games on his brand new TV. I mean, let's redistribute the wealth to make that fair right? Take my blood, sweat and tears that come from the 80+ hours a week I spend building my business and give it away to the people who aren't willing to work as hard the rest of us. Yeah sounds like a heck of a concept.

[ufojoe]

This is where your post fell apart...

Here's my favorite part. I really wish I would have had a better camera with me when I snapped this photo, but there is a bumper sticker on this guy's car. Can anyone guess what it is? If you are guessing a George Bush or John McCain sticker you guessed wrong. It is a Hispanics for Change sticker, with the now famous Obama logo. But I guess it's George Bush's fault that he's in debt and things need to change. He may actually have to hold down a job right now, and under Obama perhaps he will be able to collect a welfare check while sitting on his butt all day doing nothing playing video games on his brand new TV. I mean, let's redistribute the wealth to make that fair right? Take my blood, sweat and tears that come from the 80+ hours a week I spend building my business and give it away to the people who aren't willing to work as hard the rest of us. Yeah sounds like a heck of a concept.

So, if he had a Bush or McCain sticker on his car, you would have thought he was a hard working guy with a nice savings account?
And this thread wouldn't be here?

But, instead...

The guy is an Hispanic Obama voter and drives a modest car. So, he must be in debt, on welfare. and play video games all day.

Unbelievable.

Yeah, maybe he WAS or a millionaire. Or, maybe he was just a guy who worked his butt off for that TV. Obama voters can do
that too.

Your comments seem very judgmental to me and laden with stereotypes. Others may see it differently.

Aren't you supposed to avoid judging?

BTW, my car is worth less than that but I made over $100K last year.

Assumptions can get you in trouble.

[Snake Pliskin]

true dat.

 You dont know how much the guy makes. You just sound like a grumpy business owner that is sour about the fact that you have to work so much.

Look at me, I only make about $30,000 and year (im 20 years old) but I drive a pretty nice new Ford Fusion. Why? Because I can spend my money however I want, just like Mr. Sanchez in the above photo.

By the way if I saw you snapping a pic of me buying something I would be smashing that camera over your head.

[TURBO]

You dont know how much the guy makes. You just sound like a grumpy business owner that is sour about the fact that you have to work so much.

Look at me, I only make about $30,000 and year (im 20 years old) but I drive a pretty nice new Ford Fusion. Why? Because I can spend my money however I want, just like Mr. Sanchez in the above photo.

By the way if I saw you snapping a pic of me buying something I would be smashing that camera over your head.

His name is Mr. Sanchez?  Friend of yours?

[3paths]

This is where your post fell apart...

Here's my favorite part. I really wish I would have had a better camera with me when I snapped this photo, but there is a bumper sticker on this guy's car. Can anyone guess what it is? If you are guessing a George Bush or John McCain sticker you guessed wrong. It is a Hispanics for Change sticker, with the now famous Obama logo. But I guess it's George Bush's fault that he's in debt and things need to change. He may actually have to hold down a job right now, and under Obama perhaps he will be able to collect a welfare check while sitting on his butt all day doing nothing playing video games on his brand new TV. I mean, let's redistribute the wealth to make that fair right? Take my blood, sweat and tears that come from the 80+ hours a week I spend building my business and give it away to the people who aren't willing to work as hard the rest of us. Yeah sounds like a heck of a concept.

So, if he had a Bush or McCain sticker on his car, you would have thought he was a hard working guy with a nice savings account?
And this thread wouldn't be here?

But, instead...

The guy is an Hispanic Obama voter and drives a modest car. So, he must be in debt, on welfare. and play video games all day.

Unbelievable.

Yeah, maybe he WAS or a millionaire. Or, maybe he was just a guy who worked his butt off for that TV. Obama voters can do
that too.

Your comments seem very judgmental to me and laden with stereotypes. Others may see it differently.

Aren't you supposed to avoid judging?

BTW, my car is worth less than that but I made over $100K last year.

Assumptions can get you in trouble.

In true UfoJoe fashion you change the subject by touching on little details of something that was said rather than the meat of the conversation. I'm surprised we haven't seen your name on a ballot yet? Perhaps 2012?

The whole point is not that he was Hispanic. The point of me mentioning Hispanics for Change was to give all the details. The real point was that it was an Obama sticker and he was buying a very expensive item for someone driving a car with a bumper that was attached by a bungee cord. Having a modest car and a flashy TV is generally not the mark of an individual driving that car by choice. Joe if you buck the trend, I truly commend you for it, because you would then be a picture of fiscal responsibility. If more people took your lead and lived below or within their means, we would not have an economic crisis at the moment. That was the point I was trying to drive home. I think I saw something about you being injured and not able to work for a good part of the year. I bet the way you handle your money helped you through that situation quite well. However if you were like most other American's, debt would have swallowed you up. Now is your good financial management a result of the president or your own personal beliefs and responsibility?

The funny thing is that you decided to launch a personal attack on me, without knowing much about me. The same thing you are acusing me of. You are making assumptions as well my friend. Out of the seven people that my business employees, 2 are hispanic, 1 is Haitian and 1 is Egyptian. The next hire we are making is of South Korean decent. So 5 out of 8 will be non-caucasian. Seems pretty diverse and not someone who judges and lives by stereotypes. I got the example of staying at home all day playing video games from a very close friend of mine actually. His ideal life was to sit at home mooching off another friend of ours, collect unemployment, drink beer and play video games on the big screen all day. He is not the only one with that vision. Let's be honest. The problem is hard working American's should not foot the bill for his vision. I believe in teaching the man to fish, instead of just grilling it up and putting a fork in their hand. I would love to see our government provide people in need with access to a computer, internet connection and free college level training so they can move past any disadvantages that occured in their past and have the opportunity to secure good paying jobs. Since I was 18 years old, I knew I wanted to start a company and thought if it ever got big enough I would put this plan into play instead of waiting for Washington. It is still a dream of mine to be able to do that.

To close, I don't know this guy from Adam. He may be a millionaire, he may pull a six figure salary, he may have gone in the store with the shiny new credit card he just received in the mail. What I do know is that many American's are living well out of their means. This is a fact that cannot be denied. GroundControl no offense, but most financial advisors would agree a brand new card on a $30,000 a year salary at 20 years old is a real bad move. When I was your age I made a little more than that and I had a brand new Mercedes. It was one of the biggest financial mistakes I ever made. Not because it ruined my credit, it didn't. Not even because it was difficult to pay for. But that's exactly what it was, something I could pay for not afford. There is a real difference. I should have bought a $2000 nissan sentra and invested the $1000 a month I was paying for the Merecedes (payment, insurance, gas). Had I done that I would have been able to buy the Benz 10 times over.  Most financial advisors would tell you that new cars are for people with lots of money. I even heard one state recently that you should only buy a new car once you have eclipsed 1 million net worth. New cars, just like anything else new have a great allure. We want them maybe because our friend has one, our parents did, or we just saw one and advertising made us believe we need one. Instead of building a good financial foundation we go out and buy everything we want because credit makes it available for us to buy. I was a big offender for a long time and now I'm paying for it. I look to people like Joe and offer a congratulations for being good with their money.

If we want to really look at the financial mess that this county is in, you can narrow it down to the consumer buying things they cannot afford. Whether this guy is one of those people or just looks like one of those people, the fact of the matter is, there are more of those people than not. I bought a house that was way too expensive because I could pay for it and planned on flipping it a year or two later. Many American's in the same shoes have think it is just easier to give up. I found a way to honestly make an extra 35k per year so I could avoid foreclosure. At the end of the day I take full responisibility for the mess I'm in, because no one forced me to buy my house.

[3paths]

This is where your post fell apart...

Here's my favorite part. I really wish I would have had a better camera with me when I snapped this photo, but there is a bumper sticker on this guy's car. Can anyone guess what it is? If you are guessing a George Bush or John McCain sticker you guessed wrong. It is a Hispanics for Change sticker, with the now famous Obama logo. But I guess it's George Bush's fault that he's in debt and things need to change. He may actually have to hold down a job right now, and under Obama perhaps he will be able to collect a welfare check while sitting on his butt all day doing nothing playing video games on his brand new TV. I mean, let's redistribute the wealth to make that fair right? Take my blood, sweat and tears that come from the 80+ hours a week I spend building my business and give it away to the people who aren't willing to work as hard the rest of us. Yeah sounds like a heck of a concept.

So, if he had a Bush or McCain sticker on his car, you would have thought he was a hard working guy with a nice savings account?
And this thread wouldn't be here?

Yes this thread would still be here...

[JasonOfthetower]

The only problem is that it doesn't start with the president. The change we need is one amoungst ourselves. Here is a photo I snapped with my phone as I was leaving Walmart tonight. Unfortunately the quality here isn't great so let me explain what it is. You have a 30 somthing strapping a $800-$1000 42 inch Visio Plasma/LCD to the roof of his $2000 Nissan Sentra.



Now this guy may really be a millionaire for all I know, but for some reason I doubt it. It just seems like yet another real life example of why our economy is in ruin. It's because we have created a culture where people believe they should have all the things they can't afford, and in most cases aren't willing to work hard enough to really afford. The American definition of afford is simply that you are able to present a method of payment that will cover the asking price.

Here's my favorite part. I really wish I would have had a better camera with me when I snapped this photo, but there is a bumper sticker on this guy's car. Can anyone guess what it is? If you are guessing a George Bush or John McCain sticker you guessed wrong. It is a Hispanics for Change sticker, with the now famous Obama logo. But I guess it's George Bush's fault that he's in debt and things need to change. He may actually have to hold down a job right now, and under Obama perhaps he will be able to collect a welfare check while sitting on his butt all day doing nothing playing video games on his brand new TV. I mean, let's redistribute the wealth to make that fair right? Take my blood, sweat and tears that come from the 80+ hours a week I spend building my business and give it away to the people who aren't willing to work as hard the rest of us. Yeah sounds like a heck of a concept.

Geez, racially profile, much?

How do you know this guy hasn't been saving his little income he makes for 7 or 8 months to by a low end big screen tv? You have no idea what his situation is.

[SnookAU]

So only Obama supporters live beyond their means? 

Good one.

You dont know how much the guy makes. You just sound like a grumpy business owner that is sour about the fact that you have to work so much.

Look at me, I only make about $30,000 and year (im 20 years old) but I drive a pretty nice new Ford Fusion. Why? Because I can spend my money however I want, just like Mr. Sanchez in the above photo.

By the way if I saw you snapping a pic of me buying something I would be smashing that camera over your head.

His name is Mr. Sanchez? Friend of yours?

Yeah, me and Mr. Sanchez doubled up on your wife last night.

Plenty of people live beyond their means but it's ignorant to assume that just because this guys is hispanic that he can't afford that television.

TURBO - I've only been on this board for a month and it seems like all you do is quote people and correct them. How about giving your opinion instead of shooting down everyone elses.

[ufojoe]

In true UfoJoe fashion you change the subject by touching on little details of something that was said rather than the meat of the conversation. I'm surprised we haven't seen your name on a ballot yet? Perhaps 2012?

The whole point is not that he was Hispanic. The point of me mentioning Hispanics for Change was to give all the details. The real point was that it was an Obama sticker and he was buying a very expensive item for someone driving a car with a bumper that was attached by a bungee cord. Having a modest car and a flashy TV is generally not the mark of an individual driving that car by choice. Joe if you buck the trend, I truly commend you for it, because you would then be a picture of fiscal responsibility. If more people took your lead and lived below or within their means, we would not have an economic crisis at the moment. That was the point I was trying to drive home. I think I saw something about you being injured and not able to work for a good part of the year. I bet the way you handle your money helped you through that situation quite well. However if you were like most other American's, debt would have swallowed you up. Now is your good financial management a result of the president or your own personal beliefs and responsibility?

The funny thing is that you decided to launch a personal attack on me, without knowing much about me. The same thing you are acusing me of. You are making assumptions as well my friend. Out of the seven people that my business employees, 2 are hispanic, 1 is Haitian and 1 is Egyptian. The next hire we are making is of South Korean decent. So 5 out of 8 will be non-caucasian. Seems pretty diverse and not someone who judges and lives by stereotypes. I got the example of staying at home all day playing video games from a very close friend of mine actually. His ideal life was to sit at home mooching off another friend of ours, collect unemployment, drink beer and play video games on the big screen all day. He is not the only one with that vision. Let's be honest. The problem is hard working American's should not foot the bill for his vision. I believe in teaching the man to fish, instead of just grilling it up and putting a fork in their hand. I would love to see our government provide people in need with access to a computer, internet connection and free college level training so they can move past any disadvantages that occured in their past and have the opportunity to secure good paying jobs. Since I was 18 years old, I knew I wanted to start a company and thought if it ever got big enough I would put this plan into play instead of waiting for Washington. It is still a dream of mine to be able to do that.

To close, I don't know this guy from Adam. He may be a millionaire, he may pull a six figure salary, he may have gone in the store with the shiny new credit card he just received in the mail. What I do know is that many American's are living well out of their means. This is a fact that cannot be denied. GroundControl no offense, but most financial advisors would agree a brand new card on a $30,000 a year salary at 20 years old is a real bad move. When I was your age I made a little more than that and I had a brand new Mercedes. It was one of the biggest financial mistakes I ever made. Not because it ruined my credit, it didn't. Not even because it was difficult to pay for. But that's exactly what it was, something I could pay for not afford. There is a real difference. I should have bought a $2000 nissan sentra and invested the $1000 a month I was paying for the Merecedes (payment, insurance, gas). Had I done that I would have been able to buy the Benz 10 times over. Most financial advisors would tell you that new cars are for people with lots of money. I even heard one state recently that you should only buy a new car once you have eclipsed 1 million net worth. New cars, just like anything else new have a great allure. We want them maybe because our friend has one, our parents did, or we just saw one and advertising made us believe we need one. Instead of building a good financial foundation we go out and buy everything we want because credit makes it available for us to buy. I was a big offender for a long time and now I'm paying for it. I look to people like Joe and offer a congratulations for being good with their money.

If we want to really look at the financial mess that this county is in, you can narrow it down to the consumer buying things they cannot afford. Whether this guy is one of those people or just looks like one of those people, the fact of the matter is, there are more of those people than not. I bought a house that was way too expensive because I could pay for it and planned on flipping it a year or two later. Many American's in the same shoes have think it is just easier to give up. I found a way to honestly make an extra 35k per year so I could avoid foreclosure. At the end of the day I take full responisibility for the mess I'm in, because no one forced me to buy my house.

A lot of Americans live beyond their means and get themselves into debt by making bad decisions. We all know that.
That guy might or might not be one of them. But he got you thinking...

That's all you had to say.

But pointing out his Obama bumper sticker and making assumptions from that point on is where you really lost me.

You didn't answer my question:

So, if he had a Bush or McCain sticker on his car, you would have thought he was a hard working guy with a nice savings account?
And this thread wouldn't be here?

[3paths]

You dont know how much the guy makes. You just sound like a grumpy business owner that is sour about the fact that you have to work so much.

Look at me, I only make about $30,000 and year (im 20 years old) but I drive a pretty nice new Ford Fusion. Why? Because I can spend my money however I want, just like Mr. Sanchez in the above photo.

By the way if I saw you snapping a pic of me buying something I would be smashing that camera over your head.

His name is Mr. Sanchez? Friend of yours?

Yeah, me and Mr. Sanchez doubled up on your wife last night.

Plenty of people live beyond their means but it's ignorant to assume that just because this guys is hispanic that he can't afford that television.

Who stated that him being Hispanic is the reason why he couldn't afford the TV? The reason I believe he couldn't afford the TV is because he was strapping it to the roof of his 1995 Nissan Sentra in 48 degree weather. If you can afford a nice TV like that you don't strap it to the roof of your car in cold weather, you pay an extra $60 to have it delivered so it doesn't get destroyed on the way home. And you aren't standing outside in 48 degree weather struggling to get it strapped to the top of your car of which the TV is almost bigger than the surface area of the roof.

The reason Obama was brought into the conversation is because Obama supporters are very outspoken about the desire to have a radical change in US policy. McCain supporters seem to fine with the way things are.

McCain supporters, Obama supporters, and other probably have all equally contributed to the credit crisis in this country.

Now it doesn't matter who the president is, buying things you can't afford is going to cause problems for you that no president will be able to correct. I firmly believe that 99% of people have full control of their financial standing. I have a problem with handouts. Whether or not this guy could afford the TV I don't know. If he can't it's a picture of what is really wrong with this country. If he can, that good for him. My point here is you can't ask for change if you are a part of the problem yet refuse to accept the responsibility.

I will show you a different side of this real quick. If the same picture was of a white guy strapping this to the top of his Range Rover, with his Rolex and Armani suit, I think it would reflect the other part of what I think is wrong with this country. Excess spending and selfishness. There is nothing wrong with having nice things, but we can become a country that is consumed with these things. Yes people can spend their money however the heck they want, however if you don't believe how everyone spends their money is the basis for the state of the economy then you are missing. If my point hasn't been made by now, it's not going to be, so I look forward to reading the responses.

[3paths]

In true UfoJoe fashion you change the subject by touching on little details of something that was said rather than the meat of the conversation. I'm surprised we haven't seen your name on a ballot yet? Perhaps 2012?

The whole point is not that he was Hispanic. The point of me mentioning Hispanics for Change was to give all the details. The real point was that it was an Obama sticker and he was buying a very expensive item for someone driving a car with a bumper that was attached by a bungee cord. Having a modest car and a flashy TV is generally not the mark of an individual driving that car by choice. Joe if you buck the trend, I truly commend you for it, because you would then be a picture of fiscal responsibility. If more people took your lead and lived below or within their means, we would not have an economic crisis at the moment. That was the point I was trying to drive home. I think I saw something about you being injured and not able to work for a good part of the year. I bet the way you handle your money helped you through that situation quite well. However if you were like most other American's, debt would have swallowed you up. Now is your good financial management a result of the president or your own personal beliefs and responsibility?

The funny thing is that you decided to launch a personal attack on me, without knowing much about me. The same thing you are acusing me of. You are making assumptions as well my friend. Out of the seven people that my business employees, 2 are hispanic, 1 is Haitian and 1 is Egyptian. The next hire we are making is of South Korean decent. So 5 out of 8 will be non-caucasian. Seems pretty diverse and not someone who judges and lives by stereotypes. I got the example of staying at home all day playing video games from a very close friend of mine actually. His ideal life was to sit at home mooching off another friend of ours, collect unemployment, drink beer and play video games on the big screen all day. He is not the only one with that vision. Let's be honest. The problem is hard working American's should not foot the bill for his vision. I believe in teaching the man to fish, instead of just grilling it up and putting a fork in their hand. I would love to see our government provide people in need with access to a computer, internet connection and free college level training so they can move past any disadvantages that occured in their past and have the opportunity to secure good paying jobs. Since I was 18 years old, I knew I wanted to start a company and thought if it ever got big enough I would put this plan into play instead of waiting for Washington. It is still a dream of mine to be able to do that.

To close, I don't know this guy from Adam. He may be a millionaire, he may pull a six figure salary, he may have gone in the store with the shiny new credit card he just received in the mail. What I do know is that many American's are living well out of their means. This is a fact that cannot be denied. GroundControl no offense, but most financial advisors would agree a brand new card on a $30,000 a year salary at 20 years old is a real bad move. When I was your age I made a little more than that and I had a brand new Mercedes. It was one of the biggest financial mistakes I ever made. Not because it ruined my credit, it didn't. Not even because it was difficult to pay for. But that's exactly what it was, something I could pay for not afford. There is a real difference. I should have bought a $2000 nissan sentra and invested the $1000 a month I was paying for the Merecedes (payment, insurance, gas). Had I done that I would have been able to buy the Benz 10 times over. Most financial advisors would tell you that new cars are for people with lots of money. I even heard one state recently that you should only buy a new car once you have eclipsed 1 million net worth. New cars, just like anything else new have a great allure. We want them maybe because our friend has one, our parents did, or we just saw one and advertising made us believe we need one. Instead of building a good financial foundation we go out and buy everything we want because credit makes it available for us to buy. I was a big offender for a long time and now I'm paying for it. I look to people like Joe and offer a congratulations for being good with their money.

If we want to really look at the financial mess that this county is in, you can narrow it down to the consumer buying things they cannot afford. Whether this guy is one of those people or just looks like one of those people, the fact of the matter is, there are more of those people than not. I bought a house that was way too expensive because I could pay for it and planned on flipping it a year or two later. Many American's in the same shoes have think it is just easier to give up. I found a way to honestly make an extra 35k per year so I could avoid foreclosure. At the end of the day I take full responisibility for the mess I'm in, because no one forced me to buy my house.

A lot of Americans live beyond their means and get themselves into debt by making bad decisions. We all know that.
That guy might or might not be one of them. But he got you thinking...

That's all you had to say.

But pointing out his Obama bumper sticker and making assumptions from that point on is where you really lost me.

You didn't answer my question:

So, if he had a Bush or McCain sticker on his car, you would have thought he was a hard working guy with a nice savings account?
And this thread wouldn't be here?

Actually I did, I think it just got lost in the rest of this thread. Yes it would still be here. I also explained why the Obama sticker was relevant to me, and a little bit more about why I made some of the assumptions I made, as well as why it doesn't really matter whether or not this particular guy could afford the TV.

[RudeGuy]

It might be hard for some people to believe, but there are people who will spend money on a new car and have a crappy house to live in. I prefer to have a car that is paid for and channel all my cash towards my house. Maybe this guy spends his money on household items and doesn't care to spend it on cars. If his car runs well and gets him to work and around town that is all he cares to use it for. He also could have been picking it up for someone with a disablity who doesn't have a car . We should not be quick to judge. Oh BTW, I'm voting for McCain just in case someone was going to pull the Obama card on me.