I am in the middle class.. And it isnt that bad!!

[TURBO]

Cigarettes and alcohol seem to be the only thing you can do to stay sane working 40 hours a week at a fast food joint, farm, etc. The poor have always been the most inclined to alcoholism in almost all cultures that allow alcohol.

Sounds like more excuse making to me...

Good idea, allow the poor to drink and smoke because they are so depressed from a low paying job...

While they are drinking and smoking their depression away, their kids, and they usually have a pile of them so their welfare is more, are suffering, and learning from their parents...

Making excuses for these people is pathetic!  Are you a HIPPIE!

[MrFreakinMiyagi]

Cigarettes and alcohol seem to be the only thing you can do to stay sane working 40 hours a week at a fast food joint, farm, etc. The poor have always been the most inclined to alcoholism in almost all cultures that allow alcohol.

Sounds like more excuse making to me...

Good idea, allow the poor to drink and smoke because they are so depressed from a low paying job...

While they are drinking and smoking their depression away, their kids, and they usually have a pile of them so their welfare is more, are suffering, and learning from their parents...

Making excuses for these people is pathetic! Are you a HIPPIE!

Calling him a hippy would be an insult to hippies.

[TURBO]

Cigarettes and alcohol seem to be the only thing you can do to stay sane working 40 hours a week at a fast food joint, farm, etc. The poor have always been the most inclined to alcoholism in almost all cultures that allow alcohol.

Sounds like more excuse making to me...

Good idea, allow the poor to drink and smoke because they are so depressed from a low paying job...

While they are drinking and smoking their depression away, their kids, and they usually have a pile of them so their welfare is more, are suffering, and learning from their parents...

Making excuses for these people is pathetic! Are you a HIPPIE!

Calling him a hippy would be an insult to hippies.

lol

[buckit]

Cigarettes and alcohol seem to be the only thing you can do to stay sane working 40 hours a week at a fast food joint, farm, etc. The poor have always been the most inclined to alcoholism in almost all cultures that allow alcohol.

Sounds like more excuse making to me...

Good idea, allow the poor to drink and smoke because they are so depressed from a low paying job...

While they are drinking and smoking their depression away, their kids, and they usually have a pile of them so their welfare is more, are suffering, and learning from their parents...

Making excuses for these people is pathetic! Are you a HIPPIE!

Just like we make excuses for cops who beat up civilians...(it's a

Cigarettes and alcohol seem to be the only thing you can do to stay sane working 40 hours a week at a fast food joint, farm, etc. The poor have always been the most inclined to alcoholism in almost all cultures that allow alcohol.

Sounds like more excuse making to me...

Good idea, allow the poor to drink and smoke because they are so depressed from a low paying job...

While they are drinking and smoking their depression away, their kids, and they usually have a pile of them so their welfare is more, are suffering, and learning from their parents...

Making excuses for these people is pathetic! Are you a HIPPIE!

No, let's not make excuses for them.  Let's just handcuff them, beat them then throw them in overcrowded jails.  As long as you meet quota, right Turbo?

[The White Tiger]

Sometimes getting out and working corrects a lot of misunderstandings...sweat on the brow and a stoop of the back, creates a great clearing effect on the mind.

Most youth are liberal democrats on their mom and dad's nickels - they become a bit more conservative on their own dimes. My poor paraphrase of Churchill.

[TheGladiator]

"They" say a pic is worth a 1,000 words....






Obama campaign's "unfortunate choice" of vacant space for a field office!

[The White Tiger]

LOL - "Glad the Impaler" - strikes again!

[buckit]

Sometimes getting out and working corrects a lot of misunderstandings...sweat on the brow and a stoop of the back, creates a great clearing effect on the mind.

Most youth are liberal democrats on their mom and dad's nickels - they become a bit more conservative on their own dimes. My poor paraphrase of Churchill.

You forget, in Europe, the terms conservative and liberal are flip flopped

[The White Tiger]

No Buckit,  I think Chruchill knew exactly what he was saying.

...and so do I

[spartan]

Sometimes getting out and working corrects a lot of misunderstandings...sweat on the brow and a stoop of the back, creates a great clearing effect on the mind.

Most youth are liberal democrats on their mom and dad's nickels - they become a bit more conservative on their own dimes. My poor paraphrase of Churchill.

You forget, in Europe, the terms conservative and liberal are flip flopped

No the are not, just the colors used to represent the parties.

Conservative = blue
Socialist .. I mean liberal/Democrat = red

[John Galt?]

In Europe, "socialist" has a different meaning.

What they call socialist, we would call Progressive.  In Europe Socialism is government working for and benefiting the majority, the greatest number of people, not the minority. In the US, it is just the opposite, we take Socialism to mean restrictions on the majority to benefit the minority. So when words like "redistribution of wealth" are used Europe thinks of Dukes and Barons making centuries old resources, that have been passed on through inheritance, available to the working class and entrepreneurs. In the US, we think of middle class entrepreneurs that finally achieved wealth through hard work, not inheritance, have that wealth taken for distribution to non-productive lazy and unemployed.

[The White Tiger]

Yes, and when you don't have a job (and don't want one) socialism has an entirely different meaning.

...behind the old iron curtain a communist was simply a socialist with a bayonett.

The thing is, when the government either owns the means of production, or simply controls production by valuation of currency the end result is - governmental oversite of the public sector.

Socialism treats the people like chioldren that need oversite, while democracy and the free markets treat government like children requiring oversite. If you don't believe me, ask Thomas Jefferson.

[John Galt?]

Yes, and when you don't have a job (and don't want one) socialism has an entirely different meaning.

...behind the old iron curtain a communist was simply a socialist with a bayonett.

The thing is, when the government either owns the means of production, or simply controls production by valuation of currency the end result is - governmental oversite of the public sector.

Socialism treats the people like chioldren that need oversite, while democracy and the free markets treat government like children requiring oversite. If you don't believe me, ask Thomas Jefferson.

Again, that is the American definition of socialism.  In Europe, aristocrats owned all the means of production for a millenium. Socialism was actually a step towards free market capitalism for them. We in the US, never had vassal/serf systems or an aristocracy so we interpreted it differently. Things like "Right to Work" (non-union only) laws, public stock ownership, free trade laws, etc. were considered Socialist in Europe, we would consider them conservative. We associate socialism with Marxism while in Europe, Socialists are usually very anti-Marxist.

[buckit]

Yes, and when you don't have a job (and don't want one) socialism has an entirely different meaning.

...behind the old iron curtain a communist was simply a socialist with a bayonett.

The thing is, when the government either owns the means of production, or simply controls production by valuation of currency the end result is - governmental oversite of the public sector.

Socialism treats the people like chioldren that need oversite, while democracy and the free markets treat government like children requiring oversite. If you don't believe me, ask Thomas Jefferson.

There's your problem.  You ignorantly assume that people without jobs don't want them.  Let me ask you this: would YOU work 60 hours per week of hard labor if what you brought home after taxes was less than welfare?

Of course you wouldn't.  It'd be a waste of time.

[The White Tiger]

Yes, and when you don't have a job (and don't want one) socialism has an entirely different meaning.

...behind the old iron curtain a communist was simply a socialist with a bayonett.

The thing is, when the government either owns the means of production, or simply controls production by valuation of currency the end result is - governmental oversite of the public sector.

Socialism treats the people like chioldren that need oversite, while democracy and the free markets treat government like children requiring oversite. If you don't believe me, ask Thomas Jefferson.

There's your problem. You ignorantly assume that people without jobs don't want them. Let me ask you this: would YOU work 60 hours per week of hard labor if what you brought home after taxes was less than welfare?

Of course you wouldn't. It'd be a waste of time.

I'm not sure Buckit, I have only worked for a lifetime (from 14 years of age), as a common laborer, a fast food worker, as a pool digger, as a steelworker. I climbed from there into a sales/managerial role. In that time I married raised a son and put myself through school.

And in that in that time I have also never collected welfare nor have I ever collected unemployment...but I'm only 47. My father did because he was unprepared for hard times and warned me to prepare. I guess I still have time. Your ignorance was reading into my post that I thought everyone who doesn't have a job doesn't want one - perhaps your ignorance is that you don't know that the unemployment rates in Europe are double what they are in this country - it's almost as if the mroe socialism you have, the more people don't work...perhaps just a spurious conclusion on my part.

John Galt? The things you describe as evidence of European socialsim are in actuality European liberalism - and the principles of liberalism are best addressed by American conservatives. "The Wealth of Nations" existed a bit before "The Communist Mannifesto" and it's principles of the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat". Serfdom/fuedalsim are linked with a powerful dictator being a usual common denominator - sometimes a king and sometimes a General...but usually a tyrant. I speak to a different European age - one where socialism was predated.

I think that is the European definition of socialism, what you are describing is liberalism. Liberalism was the opposite of how it is defined today.

I would also say that liberals in the Soviet Union were very different than AMerican liberals as well...