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coopsxx

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« #30 : January 04, 2007, 12:25:58 PM »

basically rewind a year, who would you take Vince Young or D'brick??

both are great and will be but who would you rather have??

cheveliar

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« #31 : January 04, 2007, 12:26:32 PM »

JT is a stud, just as JaMarcus is a stud. And it really does not matter who you put in there at QB right now, the Bucs need drastic imp[rovement to their O line in order to become any sort of watchable.. Davis is not going to get any better than what he is now, so it is an obvious certainty that the Bucs offense needs a new starting LT. Not bagging on Davis too hard, but he is a backup quality guy IMO. He is a nice story, but time to move on, FWIW.

JaMarcus will look like a dud in this offense the way it is right now. He has one legit wideout who is going to be 36 by next season, and a runner who needs holes in order to thrive, because it is obvious he isn't a runner who generates his own yards at the point of attack, unless he has one. But I think Caddy and Simms/GRads/McCown can be better almost immediately should they sign Thomas. The man isn't just a one game improvement. He is a franchise improvement. An anchor the Bucs sorely need, and have never had.

If you told me that I'd be ready to fight.  How can you just say a guy won't get any better.  Look I'm all down with the criticism as I know my man hasn't played to the Pro Bowl caliber you guys want him at.  We all know I'm an oline/underdog kind of guy.  So that's where most of my passion comes from.  But I think it's just rude to limit a person with that kind comment.  It's like telling someone they can't learn or they can't improve...
It may be rude, but I am only operating under observation.  Like I said, at the start of this year, he was very emphatic on his determination to become a better baller.  Truth is, he regressed.  And that is striking (espescially in that woeful Browns game...ughh) considering he is supposed to be an "upside" guy in a sense.  I just think he has tapped out his physicality, and his mentals aren't going to get any better, I mean, what else is there to learn at this point?  Now wether he has declined in performance due to Mahan or an injured (or at least enigmatic) Buenning have anything to do with it?  I am sure.  But he just isn't "the" guy, or "the" anchor the Bucs offense need at the point of attack.  

He is just another lineman out there.

Again, the criticism is warranted but You name me one palyer on this team that progressed this year?  4-12 makes ALL of them to include JG and BA look like regressors...What else is there to learn, olinemen don't get good and seasoned until about 4 or 5 years in.  Any veteran will tell you that you don't stay the same.  You have to get better or worst.  They were all worst this year!!!!

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


coopsxx

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« #32 : January 04, 2007, 12:45:06 PM »

Again, the criticism is warranted but You name me one palyer on this team that progressed this year?  4-12 makes ALL of them to include JG and BA look like regressors...What else is there to learn, olinemen don't get good and seasoned until about 4 or 5 years in.  Any veteran will tell you that you don't stay the same.  You have to get better or worst.  They were all worst this year!!!!

exactly, people also need to really that regression isn't necessarily permanent. (YOUNG) Players can take a step back, and then take 2 steps forward.

BuccoJD

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« #33 : January 04, 2007, 12:56:16 PM »

How many opportunities do you have to take a stud "franchise" QB...

But he is the only QB worthy of that high of a pick. I think Brady will still be there and we MUST trade down if that is the case. If we somehow end up with BQ I will kill myself. It sickens me to see this schmuck get Heisman consideration simply because he plays for ND.

Also ND should not be ranked any higher than 20 next season. They are an absolute JOKE.


naplesbuc

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« #34 : January 04, 2007, 01:00:15 PM »

Why is everyone hating on A. Davis?  He made one terrible play against the Goons and only gave up 1 other sack.  He's come a long way.  Mahan, Wade, Walker, and Trueblood to this point are all inferior to him.  There are other line positions that whiffed in pass protection and gave up big sacks.


Boid Fink

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« #35 : January 04, 2007, 01:01:57 PM »

Again, the criticism is warranted but You name me one palyer on this team that progressed this year? 4-12 makes ALL of them to include JG and BA look like regressors...What else is there to learn, olinemen don't get good and seasoned until about 4 or 5 years in. Any veteran will tell you that you don't stay the same. You have to get better or worst. They were all worst this year!!!!

exactly, people also need to really that regression isn't necessarily permanent. (YOUNG) Players can take a step back, and then take 2 steps forward.
They were all pretty much worse for the wear.  But you got two guys on the line that are rooks, so you can't eval them really until next year when their is a springboard to measure them from.  As for center, that is a man on his swan song.  He is what he is, that is to say, not very good at clogging the middle traffic.  Buenning/Mahan...Mahan is a pool toy out there, and Buenning is/was hurt for either longer than he let on, or the coaches were pissed at him and benched him in favor of a guy they KNOW is not that effective in Mahan.  Davis was one of the guys on the line that was dinged up a little, but did not generate as much push at a heavier weight, nor did he provide you with the "warm and fuzzies" as the season progressed.  Again, drafting JT makes sense to me because youhave two high selection on the right, Buenning will benefit from having a JT line up next to him, and the middle is a MAhan job waiting to happen.

Name you one player that improved?  Clayton stayed the same, which is to say he did jack squat.  Galloway played well.  Caddy got worse, but is that the O-lines fault, his, the playcalling, or both and all?  It seemed to me that Caddy did do some Dancing with the Stars at times, but he largely didn't have any where to go.  The left side was closed for business..."Under renovation" said the sign.  Grads?  Another rook.  Stove?  He had flashes.  Brooks and Q are old, and Brooks missed a lot of sure tackles, but they are old, despite how the stats compare from last year to this.  Nece is the same ole same ole.  Ronde is a pro bowler again.  Kelly got hurt, and Bolden is as advertised, he isn't going to get better (another "rude" reference, but I call it the way I see it I guess).  Phillips went from meh, to Ugh and Allen flamed out for sure, but the secondary was manned by Ronde alone.  The special teams improved drastically in terms of coverage on kicks (with the exception of a PR meltdown).

So really, this year was deserved because of these things.

And I forgot to mention Terry, because he went from sixty to zero in one game.  That was just straight strange, and STILL an unanswered mystery.

Like I said, I would definitely be in favor of drafting JT to replace AD.  Why?  Because he is a better LT (presumably, and probably presumed correctly), and has more upside.


Boid Fink

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« #36 : January 04, 2007, 01:03:11 PM »

Why is everyone hating on A. Davis? He made one terrible play against the Goons and only gave up 1 other sack. He's come a long way. Mahan, Wade, Walker, and Trueblood to this point are all inferior to him. There are other line positions that whiffed in pass protection and gave up big sacks.


Did you even see the Browns game?  Kam Wimbley ate his lunch and beat up his dad...



alldaway

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« #37 : January 04, 2007, 01:19:52 PM »

That makes AD an average serviceable LT. 

With Simms in there AD is servicable IMO, but he will never be anything more than a below average LT. If we end up with a righthanded quarterback AD becomes a liability.

I disagree completely.   Pass protection was not the problem this year.

alldaway

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« #38 : January 04, 2007, 01:12:52 PM »

That makes AD an average serviceable LT.  Not a poor OT like you are making him to be.

Joe Thomas, CJ, Gaines, QB's.  Flip a coin.  

RedAlert

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« #39 : January 04, 2007, 01:09:57 PM »

In baseball it's pitching , hockey, it the goalie. I football it's the qb. This guy is a beast. IMO, this guy should be drafted #1. Give Gruden an extension. Let this guy develop . A prospect like him doesn't come around very often.

Pitching and goaltending are defensive positions, hence this is an invalid comparison.

Besides, football is the ultimate team sport, where no one position, even QB, dictates the success of a team, otherwise the Colts would be Super Bowl champs 4 years running...

That being said, the weakest positions are the logical priority, with the DL and OL (coaching?) clearly being the weak links..



Boid Fink

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« #40 : January 04, 2007, 01:14:43 PM »

That makes AD an average serviceable LT.  Not a poor OT like you are making him to be.

Joe Thomas, CJ, Gaines, QB's.  Flip a coin. 
I detest average and serviceable when the run game flounders like it did.




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« #41 : January 04, 2007, 01:18:19 PM »

That makes AD an average serviceable LT.  

With Simms in there AD is servicable IMO, but he will never be anything more than a below average LT.  If we end up with a righthanded quarterback AD becomes a liability.

alldaway

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« #42 : January 04, 2007, 01:19:02 PM »

That has more to do with coaching IMVHO.

You detest average but that is what the salary cap forces most teams to field.  



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« #43 : January 04, 2007, 01:21:01 PM »

That makes AD an average serviceable LT.  

With Simms in there AD is servicable IMO, but he will never be anything more than a below average LT. If we end up with a righthanded quarterback AD becomes a liability.
Like when Griese was in there? I don't remember him being that bad.

Boid Fink

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« #44 : January 04, 2007, 01:21:13 PM »

That makes AD an average serviceable LT.

With Simms in there AD is servicable IMO, but he will never be anything more than a below average LT. If we end up with a righthanded quarterback AD becomes a liability.

I disagree completely. Pass protection was not the problem this year.
Simms got dropped more than enough in the first few games to make me think otherwise.

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