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bradentonian

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#30 : November 06, 2008, 04:38:56 PM

Would have been nice to have picked up Berrian in the offseason


Feel Real Good

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#31 : November 06, 2008, 04:56:24 PM

Would have been nice to have picked up Berrian in the offseason
Yeah, everyone on here was saying what a bad signing he had been after 2-3 weeks with Tarvaris, but he's picked up his game nicely since then, #9 in receiving yards, #1 in YPC among players with 30 or more receptions, and tied for #12 in receiving touchdowns.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.



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#32 : November 06, 2008, 04:58:04 PM

Would have been nice to have picked up Berrian in the offseason
Yeah, everyone on here was saying what a bad signing he had been after 2-3 weeks with Tarvaris

You've got that right. If they had watched him played, they'd be singing a different tune.

Chucky4mayor

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#33 : November 06, 2008, 05:00:28 PM

Yucc.....where do you get your numbers from?   ESPN just showed a list of the top paid players this year and Ben Rothlesberger was the highest paid THIS year at somewhere around 27million this year(8yrs 102million) followed by Jared Allen around 20 mil(he got like 6yrs 72 million) .....both aren't on your list, surely they have to be 2 of the highest paid in the NFL....right?   

Didn't Javon Walker just get 6yrs 55 million, wheres he on that list?   Id check your sources dude before you start losing your credibility.

yuccaneers

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#34 : November 06, 2008, 05:06:29 PM

Depending on how the contract is structured, But alot of my information comes from various sources like USA today and then independent stuff.

While his total salary is around 27 million his actual cap value is around 8 million that is Big Ben

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

yuccaneers

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#35 : November 06, 2008, 05:09:42 PM

Chucky - What ESPN is reporting is his total salary for the year is 27 million, because of his 25 million dollar signing bonus and his base salary of 2.5 million, which would be correct, the only problem is only a portion of his signing bonus is being add to the teams actual cap number because you have to prorate his signing bonus over the length of his contract

    Player      Team       Base Salary       Sign Bonus       Other Bonus       Total Salary       Cap Value
   Roethlisberger, Ben      Steelers      $ 2,500,000      $ 25,200,000      $ 1,920      $ 27,701,920      $ 7,971,920

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

yuccaneers

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#36 : November 06, 2008, 05:10:43 PM

Hope that helps you understand it a little better

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

Chucky4mayor

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#37 : November 06, 2008, 05:14:36 PM

i just find it hard to believe that 2 guys that restructured their contracts over the off-season and got over 12mil per year averaged out aren't on that list of top paid players that you provided.  Favre on the Jets is on that list so it's been updated since the off-season.

total bogus list.

yuccaneers

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#38 : November 06, 2008, 05:18:19 PM

It comes down to how each outlet is trying to support or have fans look at the information. One outlet is using actual cap value, while the other one is using Total salary in a given year, but since the NFL goes by cap dollars the true indicator is the one I provided

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

Chucky4mayor

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#39 : November 06, 2008, 05:20:46 PM

ok i understand that....what you are saying then is that list and any other one that you look at means absolutely diddly squat when the GM's can frontload or backload contracts. 

i know you understand all the fine points way better than i do....it really seems like nowadays the salary cap doesnt really matter, do you agree?  I mean a really bad team that has a rising star can front load his contract so in a few years when that team is competetive the stars they already have will have gotten their money and the team will be in good shape capwise to spend a lot of free agents.

Are signing bonuses going to create a need to change the salary cap system?

yuccaneers

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#40 : November 06, 2008, 05:26:16 PM

That is basically correct, with the LTBE loophole and the wording of contracts GM, have gotten around the hard cap and have given themselves a soft cap kinda of like it is in basketball but with out the luxury tax.

There are several reason why the owners opted out of the current CBA, I am sure one of which is the signing bonuses, not to mention, rookie contracts and then the % the players are getting has cut into the actual profit margin 

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

Feel Real Good

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#41 : November 07, 2008, 12:46:49 PM

Quote from: Mike Florio
USA TODAY SALARY STUDY IS AMBITIOUS, BUT MISLEADING

We were impressed by the extent of the effort expended by the folks at USA Today in compiling the 2008 salaries of every NFL player.

It's not an easy task.  The NFLPA web site makes only base salary information available to the media.  Getting the numbers regarding bonuses and other non-salary payments takes a ton of elbow grease, and Jodi Upton, Scott Boeck, and Larry Weisman did a great job of pulling it all together.

The full list of 2008 salaries appeared in Thursday's edition.  The USA Today web site has an excellent sortable database covering nine seasons of player salaries.

That said, the presentation of the information can be a bit misleading.  Though the Section C cover item from Weisman and the paragraph at the top of the first page listing the numbers attempt to clarify that the term "salaries" includes every bit of compensation, folks who don't follow football as closely as the those who frequent this site might come away thinking, for example, that quarterback Ben Roethlisberger of the Steelers makes $27.7 million ever year.

He doesn't.  His "salary" for 2008 includes the up-front money he received when he signed his long-term deal.

Weisman's article on page 1 of Section C mentions this dynamic, but plenty of people flip through the newspaper without reading every article, and some could end up perusing page 5C and thinking, "Holy crap . . . that dude who crashed his motorcycle into a car without a helmet makes $27 million a year."

One league insider said that using this approach "does a huge disservice" to all parties concerned, including players who aren't making each and every year nearly as much as their friends and family might conclude.

"There's no relevance to this method," the source said.  "The most important number is average pay over the first three years of a contract." 

Also, those who follow the sport more closely than the average casual fan might be confused by total payrolls that exceed the $116 million per-team salary cap for 2008.

The Cardinals and Jaguars will spend $122 million each, the Bears will spend $120 million.  The Browns and Saints will spend $131 million each; the Vikings are at $133 million.  The oft-frugal Steelers will spend $128 million.   

The Cowboys will spend a whopping $146 million.  But the "champs" are the Raiders, who have gotten two wins to date in return for an investment of $152 million.

Teams can spend more money in a given year that the cap contemplates for two reasons.  First, teams use devices like a practically unachievable "Likely to Be Earned" incentives to carry excess cap space from year to year.  Second, the concept of "cash over cap" results in teams shelling out more money than the cap permits this year, with a portion of that cash hitting the books for cap purposes in future years.

Finally, there's a glitch regarding the handling of certain LTBE incentives.  FB/DT/FB/DT/FB Dan Klecko of the Eagles is listed as having a total salary of more than $10 million.  The sortable database points out that this consists of a base salary of $605,000 - and an "other bonus" of $10,036,720.

Apparently, the Eagles have attached to Klecko's contract an LTBE incentive, which will allow them to push $10 million of cap space into 2009.  But Klecko will never see a dime of that money.

(Good luck explaining that to Uncle Frank who wants to borrow a couple hundred bucks because his stepdaughter needs braces.)

We base our belief in this regard the entry for Vikings defensive tackle Pat Williams.  His 2007 contract extension contained a phony $13.2 million LTBE based on special-teams tackles.  The maneuver was aimed at carrying cap space into 2008; Williams never received that payment.  But the USA Today database shows that Williams received $13.55 million in "other bonuses" last year.

The problem with the inclusion of these amounts is that it's now impossible to know which players' reported salaries are overstated.  (Another guy who isn't making as much as the report indicates is 49ers cornerback Donald Strickland, whose unattainable LTBE is reflected as an "other bonus" of $7 million.)

Next year, the project should include an attempt to sort out the "real" LTBE's from the phony ones.  Then again, it won't matter if there's no extension to the CBA.

In 2009, teams won't use phantom LTBE's to push money into the 2010 salary cap, because there won't be a salary cap in 2010. 

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/11/07/usa-today-salary-study-is-ambitious-but-misleading/

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

rowdie

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#42 : November 07, 2008, 12:56:00 PM

Well, it was fun while it lasted.

DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0

yuccaneers

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#43 : November 07, 2008, 01:10:39 PM

Like I stated earlier Big Ben actual salary for this season will be around 27 million his actual cap number is around 8 million and the LTBE is a way to push cap space from year to year

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith
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