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#15 : November 07, 2008, 10:01:32 PM

6-3 the only stat that matters. The QBs have gotten the job done 6 times this year and they have failed to get it done 3 times. Everything else is fluff.

all that means nuthin if it results in another one and done. Come playoff time, we can't be struggling on O like we did vs those defensive powerhouses like Denver and Dallas.

Biggest problem with the O is injuries.

Its week 10.... EVERY team has injuries.

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#16 : November 07, 2008, 10:42:17 PM

6-3 the only stat that matters. The QBs have gotten the job done 6 times this year and they have failed to get it done 3 times. Everything else is fluff.

all that means nuthin if it results in another one and done. Come playoff time, we can't be struggling on O like we did vs those defensive powerhouses like Denver and Dallas.

Worse than nuthin, as it will mean we are going into another season with no answers at QB


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#17 : November 09, 2008, 06:32:16 AM

The 65 quarterback driven mistakes is through nine games which represents either batted passes at the LOS, poor throws and or interceptions. Which represents 18% of the 347 total passes thrown by the Bucs quarterbacks.

The 18 dropped passes by the receivers, tight ends and running backs represents .05% of the 347 total passes thrown by the quarterbacks.
If you are trying to prove a point with numbers you really need to check them better than that.
.05%? I really don't think so.
Also who decides what is a poor throw by the QB?

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#18 : November 07, 2008, 11:43:57 PM

This WR corp is really learning how to play together, and much of the credit goes to Antonio Bryant's play.
The guy is a BEAST!

This group of WRs can match the SB group of KMac, Keyshawn, and JoeJ by season's end.

Gruden this week said that the WR position was a STRENGTH, now.









(And please don't lump #7 & #8 (batted ball & INT King) together)


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#19 : November 08, 2008, 02:26:27 AM

This WR corp is really learning how to play together, and much of the credit goes to Antonio Bryant's play.
The guy is a BEAST!

This group of WRs can match the SB group of KMac, Keyshawn, and JoeJ by season's end.

Gruden this week said that the WR position was a STRENGTH, now.









(And please don't lump #7 & #8 (batted ball & INT King) together)

Great pic of the O huddle. Trueblood is a freakin giant!


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#20 : November 08, 2008, 06:50:17 AM

The two quarterbacks who have started for the Bucs this season have 221 completions for 2,167 yards. I wanted to know exactly how much YAC was gained after each catch after doing some digging the receivers, tight ends and backs have gotten 1,026 yards of YAC on the season. Leaving the quarterbacks with 1,141 yards through the air or an average of 5.14 yards on average that the football has traveled before being caught. While I understand this is a West Coast Scheme. Given the design of each play with it attacking each level of the defense. It is on the quarterback to pull the trigger and stretch the defense, there have been several times where the quarterback for what ever reason is not doing so.

While some will argue that if the running game was working the passing game would be working. But it goes both ways as if the passing game was working the running game would be working. It takes both to have an effective offense in this day and age.

For those who think it is the receivers not doing there part in getting open it would appear they have been getting open and doing their part by gaining YAC as they represent 47% of the total yards after the football is caught.

The Quarterbacks have a combined 347 pass attempts by both Garcia & Griese they have combined for 47 poor throws, 9 batted balls and 9 interceptions for a total of 65 quarterback driven mistakes which amounts to 18%, The receivers have a total of 18 dropped passes or .05%

I would tend to lean towards the quarterbacks are not getting the job done, even though it wont make 4Bucs happy the numbers sure do support it

It's hard to tell without the league wide numbers, any chance you have those? I look forward to seeing all the evidence.



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#21 : November 09, 2008, 05:57:12 AM

I took the liberty of posting the teams win/loss records to the right.

Well after a little help from a few friends over here, got the numbers for each team and the Bucs are the fifth worst when it comes to average per passing playing that the football travels past the LOS through the air
   Team   Passing Yards   YAC   Ball Traveled In Air   Completions   Average Ball traveled before being caught
1   Patriots   1665   981   684   167   4.095808383                                        5-3
2   Titans   1346   730   616   129   4.775193798                                         8-0
3   Bengals   1531   665   866   181   4.784530387                                         1-8
4   Jets   1838   960   878   183   4.797814208                                         5-3
5   Buccaneers   2167   1026   1141   222   5.13963964                           6-3
6   Chiefs   1506   712   794   149   5.32885906                                           1-7
7   Ravens   1507   752   755   137   5.510948905                                          5-3
8   Seahawks   1223   569   654   113   5.787610619                          2-6
9   Redskins   1989   952   1037   178   5.825842697                                           6-3
10   Bills   1964   970   994   167   5.952095808                                           5-3
11   Rams   1544   748   796   131   6.076335878                                           2-6
12   Jaguars   1771   736   1035   170   6.088235294                                           3-5
13   Browns   1693   811   882   144   6.125                                                       3-6
14   Bears   1835   852   983   159   6.182389937                                            5-3
15   Texans   2232   1016   1216   196   6.204081633                                            3-5
16   Cardinals   2474   1171   1303   210   6.204761905                                            5-3
17   49ers   1851   953   898   143   6.27972028                                              2-6
18   Eagles   2249   1053   1196   189   6.328042328                                            5-3
19   Raiders   1289   622   667   105   6.352380952                                             2-6
20   Packers   1988   894   1094   169   6.473372781                                             4-4
21   Lions   1791   780   1011   156   6.480769231                                             0-8
22   Cowboys   2179   1012   1167   178   6.556179775                                              5-4
23   Saints   2563   1157   1406   210   6.695238095                                              4-4
24   Vikings   1788   799   989   146   6.773972603                                              4-4
25   Colts   2008   768   1240   183   6.775956284                                              4-4
26   Dolphins   2077   877   1200   171   7.01754386                                                4-4
27   Panthers   1781   763   1018   140   7.271428571                                               6-2
28   Broncos   2635   1080   1555   213   7.300469484                                               5-4
29   Chargers   2038   924   1114   149   7.476510067                                               3-5
30   Giants   1740   576   1164   154   7.558441558                                               7-1
31   Falcons   1661   644   1017   133   7.646616541                                                5-3
32   Steelers   1625   644   981   128   7.6640625                                                    6-2


There are more winning teams at the top than there are at the bottom.

I suppose it just means there are many different ways to win in the NFL.



"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill

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#22 : November 09, 2008, 05:28:50 AM

Good job yucc. Interesting that the league differential top to bottom is only 3.5 yards. But then it's on the recievers to pick up yardage and as you said, ours are doing a fine job. Maybe running more no huddle will improve those numbers. Also quite interesting that 7 of the 10 top (or bottom) teams on that list have winning records and are in playoff contention.



"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill

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#23 : November 08, 2008, 10:18:40 AM

I believe that the QB position is the biggest question mark on the offense.  Garcia and Griese have both got the job done, but they each have faults....big ones.

Garcia doesn't feel comfortable in the pocket and breaks it the first chance he gets.  His accuracy has been questionable at times.  It's tough for the WR's to get YAC when they are having to dive for balls or make acrobatic catches on balls behind them.  Garcia is too conservative with the ball.  We have to take shots sometime, which he did a better job of against KC.

Griese's problem is obviously the multiple interceptions a game.

I wish we could find a happy medium with these two guys.  I don't know if McCown is the answer or not, but I would be willing to let him make a few mistakes in order to get the big play capability. 

Hopefully Garcia will come out with more of a down-field-mentality after the Bye.


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#24 : November 08, 2008, 11:10:37 AM

After being successful at throwing it down the field more at K.C., and with Galloway getting better, Bryant continuing to return to form, Clayton seemingly coming on, and Hilliard continuing to be his solid stable self, this passing attack COULD be in the process of getting much more effective.

If this happens, the running game will take off, IF Graham and Dunn are ready to go after the bye.

The Viking game could tell us a lot about where this team is going this year.

.....just my opinion

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#25 : November 08, 2008, 05:13:49 PM

What does league wide numbers have to do with the Buccaneers offense? Those numbers above represent the actual stats for the passing game.

The 1026 yards is the combined YAC for receivers, tight ends, running backs and any other player that might have gained yardage after catching a pass from either Griese or Garcia.

The 65 quarterback driven mistakes is through nine games which represents either batted passes at the LOS, poor throws and or interceptions. Which represents 18% of the 347 total passes thrown by the Bucs quarterbacks.

The 18 dropped passes by the receivers, tight ends and running backs represents .05% of the 347 total passes thrown by the quarterbacks.

By subtracting the YAC yardage from the total yards of the quarterback you get the distance the football has traveled before being caught which is 1,141 yards by dividing the number of completions in this case 221 completions by 1.141 yards you get the 5.14 yards the football traveled through the air on average.

Not sure what the rest of the league has to do with the Buccaneers needing to throw to the different levels of a defense other then you just dont get it.

For the offense to be able to gain the YAC that the scheme is based around and needs to be effective you dont necessarily need a true deep threat(Joey Galloway) to be able to stretch a defense down the field to be able to keep a defense from cheating a few extra steps towards the LOS, what you need is some 15-25 yard pass plays(That is the football travel through the air 15-25 yards). Which is the intermediate zone of every defense, which by cause and effect would not allow defense to routinely bring the extra defenders into the box to help defend the run and would allow more room for the receivers to be able to work underneath and be able to turn up field after catching the football to gain even more YAC.

Further more, the check down is in full effect as the running backs and tight end have caught a total of 105 passes while the wide receivers have caught 117 passes or an average of 13 receptions a game for the receivers and the backs and tight ends have caught an average of 11.6 passes a game.

For the receivers to have 1.4 catches a game more then the outlets and check downs has to do with the quarterback not attacking the intermediate zone of a given defense. The receivers have dropped 8 passes while the backs & tight ends have dropped 10 passes. The quarterbacks who have started this season are to quick to look for the check down rather then standing tall in the pocket and delivering a ball into the intermediate zone. Which in this case would have an effect on two things the first being the running game as it would keep a defense from routinely bringing an extra defender down in run support, second it would allow for greater room and less congestion for the receivers and check downs in which to gain the YAC which is need in this offense

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#26 : November 08, 2008, 05:24:27 PM

This WR corp is really learning how to play together, and much of the credit goes to Antonio Bryant's play.
The guy is a BEAST!

This group of WRs can match the SB group of KMac, Keyshawn, and JoeJ by season's end.

Gruden this week said that the WR position was a STRENGTH, now.









(And please don't lump #7 & #8 (batted ball & INT King) together)

Great pic of the O huddle. Trueblood is a freakin giant!

It takes two Dunns to make one trueblood.


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#27 : November 08, 2008, 05:33:09 PM

What does league wide numbers have to do with the Buccaneers offense? Those numbers above represent the actual stats for the passing game.

The 1026 yards is the combined YAC for receivers, tight ends, running backs and any other player that might have gained yardage after catching a pass from either Griese or Garcia.

The 65 quarterback driven mistakes is through nine games which represents either batted passes at the LOS, poor throws and or interceptions. Which represents 18% of the 347 total passes thrown by the Bucs quarterbacks.

The 18 dropped passes by the receivers, tight ends and running backs represents .05% of the 347 total passes thrown by the quarterbacks.

By subtracting the YAC yardage from the total yards of the quarterback you get the distance the football has traveled before being caught which is 1,141 yards by dividing the number of completions in this case 221 completions by 1.141 yards you get the 5.14 yards the football traveled through the air on average.

Not sure what the rest of the league has to do with the Buccaneers needing to throw to the different levels of a defense other then you just dont get it.

For the offense to be able to gain the YAC that the scheme is based around and needs to be effective you dont necessarily need a true deep threat(Joey Galloway) to be able to stretch a defense down the field to be able to keep a defense from cheating a few extra steps towards the LOS, what you need is some 15-25 yard pass plays(That is the football travel through the air 15-25 yards). Which is the intermediate zone of every defense, which by cause and effect would not allow defense to routinely bring the extra defenders into the box to help defend the run and would allow more room for the receivers to be able to work underneath and be able to turn up field after catching the football to gain even more YAC.

Further more, the check down is in full effect as the running backs and tight end have caught a total of 105 passes while the wide receivers have caught 117 passes or an average of 13 receptions a game for the receivers and the backs and tight ends have caught an average of 11.6 passes a game.

For the receivers to have 1.4 catches a game more then the outlets and check downs has to do with the quarterback not attacking the intermediate zone of a given defense. The receivers have dropped 8 passes while the backs & tight ends have dropped 10 passes. The quarterbacks who have started this season are to quick to look for the check down rather then standing tall in the pocket and delivering a ball into the intermediate zone. Which in this case would have an effect on two things the first being the running game as it would keep a defense from routinely bringing an extra defender down in run support, second it would allow for greater room and less congestion for the receivers and check downs in which to gain the YAC which is need in this offense

For comparison. Those numbers may be high, may be low, may be in the middle. If you want to convince someone of something it's best to have all the data.

Agree or disagree?



"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill



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#28 : November 08, 2008, 05:35:47 PM

This group of WRs can match the SB group of KMac, Keyshawn, and JoeJ by season's end.


I this happens, i'd be ecstatic. I don't see it though.

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#29 : November 08, 2008, 05:42:52 PM

I get that you're trying to build a case, but without knowing where we fall in the spectrum of the league it doesn't mean anything.
It's like saying you ate Spam for breakfast and now you have an upset stomach, therefore Spam causes dyspepsia. There may be other factors at work here.
Maybe it was the Moo Shu pork you had for dinner last night. And maybe these numbers don't fall outside the norm for other teams.
There's not enough info to tell. I don't doubt your math, just your methodology.



"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill
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