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bucjoe

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« #30 : November 08, 2008, 07:59:40 PM »

Yucc, I don't doubt either your math OR your methodology.  I also agree with the conclusion you draw.  It seems to me if you are only throwing the ball just over 5 yards past the LOS on average, it would have exactly the result you draw.

However, I also agree with Snake...to REALLY draw a complete conclusion, you need to know where those results rank among other NFL teams.

.....just my opinion

yuccaneers

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« #31 : November 08, 2008, 08:07:41 PM »

Well, guys as far as being able to get all the data for each club dont have the time needed for such a project. Snake it will just have to be inconclusive to this point, but we can agree the offense still has work that needs to be done. I tried to be objective with the numbers.

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

Snake Pliskin

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« #32 : November 08, 2008, 08:10:32 PM »

I agree to that.



"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill

BuccanAy

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« #33 : November 08, 2008, 08:59:13 PM »

Good job with the #'s yuc.  It's blatantly obvious we don't throw the intermediate routes enough to backup the "box" enough to have much success with our running game and short passing game.  Hopefully this changes or it will be another one and done if we're fortunate enough to make it.

yuccaneers

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« #34 : November 08, 2008, 09:03:23 PM »

Well after a little help from a few friends over here, got the numbers for each team and the Bucs are the fifth worst when it comes to average per passing playing that the football travels past the LOS through the air

   Team   Passing Yards   YAC   Ball Traveled In Air   Completions   Average Ball traveled before being caught
1   Patriots   1665   981   684   167   4.095808383
2   Titans   1346   730   616   129   4.775193798
3   Bengals   1531   665   866   181   4.784530387
4   Jets   1838   960   878   183   4.797814208
5   Buccaneers   2167   1026   1141   222   5.13963964
6   Chiefs   1506   712   794   149   5.32885906
7   Ravens   1507   752   755   137   5.510948905
8   Seahawks   1223   569   654   113   5.787610619
9   Redskins   1989   952   1037   178   5.825842697
10   Bills   1964   970   994   167   5.952095808
11   Rams   1544   748   796   131   6.076335878
12   Jaguars   1771   736   1035   170   6.088235294
13   Browns   1693   811   882   144   6.125
14   Bears   1835   852   983   159   6.182389937
15   Texans   2232   1016   1216   196   6.204081633
16   Cardinals   2474   1171   1303   210   6.204761905
17   49ers   1851   953   898   143   6.27972028
18   Eagles   2249   1053   1196   189   6.328042328
19   Raiders   1289   622   667   105   6.352380952
20   Packers   1988   894   1094   169   6.473372781
21   Lions   1791   780   1011   156   6.480769231
22   Cowboys   2179   1012   1167   178   6.556179775
23   Saints   2563   1157   1406   210   6.695238095
24   Vikings   1788   799   989   146   6.773972603
25   Colts   2008   768   1240   183   6.775956284
26   Dolphins   2077   877   1200   171   7.01754386
27   Panthers   1781   763   1018   140   7.271428571
28   Broncos   2635   1080   1555   213   7.300469484
29   Chargers   2038   924   1114   149   7.476510067
30   Giants   1740   576   1164   154   7.558441558
31   Falcons   1661   644   1017   133   7.646616541
32   Steelers   1625   644   981   128   7.6640625

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

yuccaneers

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« #35 : November 08, 2008, 09:06:04 PM »

The average per passing completion that the football travels through the air in the NFL is 6.24 yards before being caught

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

SunnyD

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« #36 : November 08, 2008, 09:26:13 PM »

This is good stuff.

I'm Impressed.

It's quite a conundrum that Gruden's offense isn't 100% efficent with veterean game managers but that is the type of QB he seems to target year after year.

yuccaneers

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« #37 : November 08, 2008, 09:28:28 PM »

Sunny - Thanks figured I would go about proving my opinion the old way, before this season

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith



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« #38 : November 08, 2008, 09:34:25 PM »

good work, dude

yuccaneers

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« #39 : November 08, 2008, 09:48:37 PM »

On a side note the Bucs have the fifth most YAC yardage with 1,026 yards after the catch, it is clear the receivers, backs and tight ends are getting the job done when they get the chance

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

4bucs

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« #40 : November 09, 2008, 10:45:13 AM »

Have to disagree with you that a good running game won't make a difference in Garcias qb play....look at the Titans...they run the ball and play dee...theres a lot of ways to play this game...Snake has made your chart a little meaningless ...ya think...seriously ..if we are running the hell out of the ball ya think the qbs gonna be throwing the ball down the field a lot or mainly play action...save a shot or 2 to Joey....yuk your supporters give you kudos but sorry your chart means very little to me....no hard feelings.

yuccaneers

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« #41 : November 09, 2008, 10:54:30 AM »

If you divide 18 by 347 you get .0518731% which would represent less then 1% of the passes the quarterbacks have thrown. Poor throws are over thrown passes, under thrown passes and misses like we saw in the Chiefs game where Garcia should have had a TD to Galloway but was off target.

Even with the number I know some will continue to think Garcia is doing a good job, but the reality is that this team is winning in spite of the performance from the quarterback position

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

4bucs

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« #42 : November 09, 2008, 11:02:17 AM »

T
After being successful at throwing it down the field more at K.C., and with Galloway getting better, Bryant continuing to return to form, Clayton seemingly coming on, and Hilliard continuing to be his solid stable self, this passing attack COULD be in the process of getting much more effective.

If this happens, the running game will take off, IF Graham and Dunn are ready to go after the bye.

The Viking game could tell us a lot about where this team is going this year.
IMO....the running game will take off when Askew gets back ....the difference in our running game started when we lost Storer...getting Askew back and some of our linemen healthy will be key....the running game will make the passing game work...watch and see ok joe....the kc game was when we were in a no huddle offense....in our set offense the running games improvement will make our play action work...last few games we rarely used any play action.

4bucs

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« #43 : November 09, 2008, 11:24:04 AM »

yuk...think the timing may be off with Galloway and Garcia missing so much practice...hes not getting much seperation too....how did you like that perfect td pass to Bryant and perfect 2 point conversion....you have to admit (I know it kills you to)Garcia won the game .... ;)

yuccaneers

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« #44 : November 09, 2008, 11:26:51 AM »

Pat - it works both ways you want to say that if the running game was working Garcia would have better numbers and would be able to pick a part a defense, in theory you might be correct, but there is always a flip side to that if Garcia was performing at a higher level the running game would be working.

I wanted to prove that Garcia does not attack the intermediate zone of a  defense which he doesnt, for the underneath passes and running game to be effective you have to push the football down the field more then what has been happening this season.

As far as running play action, there is not the threat of a down field passing game this season, so it would not be as effective as many think. It also leaves the team open to stunts and other blitz formations.

As far as throwing underneath, you have to have wider receiver splits to throw the football inside this gives for greater room for the receivers to operate in, verses shorter receiver splits if you are trying to throw the football to the outside which would give the receivers more room to operate to the outside.

The other problem is with so many passes on the season already with a very limited inventory you begin to throw the same pattern over and over. You end up getting in trouble because the defense knows what is coming.

In scoring territory after moving the football up and down the field the Bucs are already warming up the placekicker, becuase inside the 15 yard line the defense is changing, the size of the field they operate in on offense changes and suddenly the basic offense is going to pieces. to get to the 15 you had to pass the 25 yard line what needs to happen is taking shots to the endzone around the 25-20 yard line. if you fail to score a touchdown you can still kick the field goal and get the three points.

You dont want to try and move the football from the 25 to the goal line by  dinking and dunking your way there by in large the defense will begin to blitz more around the 25 yardline after a team moves the football on them this is the perfect time to go for the endzone as it is must likely going to be the best chance of getting single coverage and a chance for the playmakers to make a play

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith
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