Can Jon Gruden develop ANY offensive talent?

[GameTime]

The fact that you don't have nice, shiny looking studs at the offensive "skill" positions is irrelevent to me.

depends on how far you want this team to go.

[RideInMyChevy]

I'm saying I don't care.  Who the hell cares whether we drafted or signed players as FAs?  Only people trying to find something to pick at Gruden over.  It doesn't matter how they got here.  It only matters that we win football games.  That's all that matters.

Nobody was complaining about how many of our "skill position" guys we drafted when we won the Super Bowl.  

That was 6 years ago... if we want to actually win a playoff game we need to have a WR that can get open, a QB that can get the ball to him down field and a running back that can break off a 60 yard run. Division championships are nice, but 1 and done playoffs are awful, especially home field 1 and done.

[Feel Real Good]

Bottom line is 2 division championships in the past 3 years and 6-3 and in the thick of it again this year.  The fact that you don't have nice, shiny looking studs at the offensive "skill" positions is irrelevent to me.

Division championships and/or playoff appearances got Dungy fired. It's time to start making some noise against the good teams.

[TBayXXXVII]

... but finding guys like Anquan Boldin, Marion Barber, and Jason Witten is a matter of luck more than scouting.  After all, they make up a whopping 4% of second - seventh rounders selected.  You have a 1 in 23 chance of finding an offensive gem past round 1.

Boldin was a 2nd round pick, Witten a 3rd, and Barber a 4th.  I'm thinking that when AZ drafted Boldin and Dallas drafted Witten, they had high expectations of these guys.  Barber was probably a guy that they hoped could be a starter but weren't willing to bet on it, meaning, they weren't willing to spend a 1st or 2nd rounder.

[olafberserker]

Bottom line is 2 division championships in the past 3 years and 6-3 and in the thick of it again this year.? The fact that you don't have nice, shiny looking studs at the offensive "skill" positions is irrelevent to me.

Division championships and/or playoff appearances got Dungy fired. It's time to start making some noise against the good teams.

The team hitting a rut and not performing up to potential come playoff time got Dungy fired.  Actually his refusal to fire Clyde adn hire an actual OC got him fired.  We've improved each of the past couple of years.  Gruden's window will run out, I just don't get the whining and complaining while we're 6-3 and in the middle of a division race.

[olafberserker]

The fact that you don't have nice, shiny looking studs at the offensive "skill" positions is irrelevent to me.

depends on how far you want this team to go.

again, we won a Super Bowl without all the nice, shiny offensive skill position players.

[olafberserker]

I'm saying I don't care. ?Who the hell cares whether we drafted or signed players as FAs? ?Only people trying to find something to pick at Gruden over. ?It doesn't matter how they got here. ?It only matters that we win football games. ?That's all that matters.

Nobody was complaining about how many of our "skill position" guys we drafted when we won the Super Bowl. ?

That was 6 years ago... if we want to actually win a playoff game we need to have a WR that can get open, a QB that can get the ball to him down field and a running back that can break off a 60 yard run. Division championships are nice, but 1 and done playoffs are awful, especially home field 1 and done.

you're right, we should fire the Head Coach every few years if we don't win a Super Bowl.  Only 1 team each year wins the Super Bowl.

[GameTime]

The team hitting a rut and not performing up to potential come playoff time got Dungy fired. Actually his refusal to fire Clyde adn hire an actual OC got him fired. 

how is this any different than what we've seen the past 6 years?

[Feel Real Good]

The fact that you don't have nice, shiny looking studs at the offensive "skill" positions is irrelevent to me.

depends on how far you want this team to go.

again, we won a Super Bowl without all the nice, shiny offensive skill position players.

We won a Super Bowl because of high picks on some bad assed defensive players and big free agent money on some others. If the Bucs wanted to keep that going and used the Clayton pick on Will Smith and the Carnell pick on Demarcus Ware, I wouldn't say anything about the offense. But clearly using those picks on a wide receiver and running backs shows the Bucs value those "nice, shiny offensive skill position players", as you say. That's the conundrum.

[olafberserker]

The team hitting a rut and not performing up to potential come playoff time got Dungy fired. Actually his refusal to fire Clyde adn hire an actual OC got him fired.

how is this any different than what we've seen the past 6 years?

You're kidding right.  For one, to my knowledge Gruden hasn't been told to fire any one and refused.  Secondly, Gruden was hired to finish the job and he did.   He then had to address rebuilding an aging defense while upgrading the offense.

I'm not rehashing this whole argument.  Anyone that thinks Gruden's rebuilding of this team started 6 years ago is extremely biased or delusional.

[olafberserker]

The fact that you don't have nice, shiny looking studs at the offensive "skill" positions is irrelevent to me.

depends on how far you want this team to go.

again, we won a Super Bowl without all the nice, shiny offensive skill position players.

We won a Super Bowl because of high picks on some bad assed defensive players and big free agent money on some others.

We also won it by bringing in some key offensive FAs.

Barrett Ruud, Gaines Adams, Tanard Jackson, Aqib Talib

We've also drafted Davin Joseph, Aron Sears, Jeremy Trueblood, and signed Jeff Faine. 

We've upgraded our talent over the past few years through the draft.

[Feel Real Good]

We also won it by bringing in some key offensive FAs.

As I said earlier, if the Bucs can recapture that perfect storm of finding 6-7 key offensive players via free agency in one offseason, go for it. But as we've seen since then it's not easy. Drafting is still the best way of ensuring you can get top level players.

[olafberserker]

We also won it by bringing in some key offensive FAs.

As I said earlier, if the Bucs can recapture that perfect storm of finding 6-7 key offensive players via free agency in one offseason, go for it. But as we've seen since then it's not easy. Drafting is still the best way of ensuring you can get top level players.

Caddy, Clayton, D Jackson (reincarnated) .... whoops