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3paths

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: November 08, 2008, 07:24:21 PM

I hear a lot of people throw in the word progress, especially Obama and UfoJoe, so what exactly is mean by that? What are we trying to progress towards. Because this is a football board, where is the proverbial "End Zone?"

TURBO

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#1 : November 08, 2008, 07:40:17 PM

well, according to joe, THIS is progress...lol

Well, at least there was some progress in Oregon...

Our nation's first transgender Mayor.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/34147009.html



3paths

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#2 : November 08, 2008, 07:43:20 PM

well, according to joe, THIS is progress...lol

Well, at least there was some progress in Oregon...

Our nation's first transgender Mayor.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/34147009.html

That was actually the inspiration for my post which lead me to question what it really means to people.

ufojoe

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#3 : November 08, 2008, 08:07:38 PM


The progress I was referring to in that thread is this:

One day, most of us will be able to put aside our previous feelings/judgments about blacks, hispanics, whites, gays, transgender folks, etc...

What will matter is how we treat each them and how they people treat us. Isn't that what it's all about? I really don't care if
somebody is gay or wants to wear a dress. It just doesn't affect me. That's their life and as long as they're happy and not
hurting anybody, who are we to judge their love and what it should look like? Some will say, "It's all about "me" with
these gays. They only care about pleasing themselves." Well, I think they want to be happy just like heterosexuals
want to be happy. Is there something wrong with that? Don't we all like to please ourselves from time to time?
And I'm not just talking about sex.

Gays have been criticized for living a promiscuous lifestyle. Now, when they want to do the traditional thing in marriage,
some people don't want them to be able to do it. Why? Because of the Bible. Make no mistake about it. The Bible
is the overwhelming reason why P8 passed.

More later...


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#4 : November 08, 2008, 08:08:45 PM

Kudos to the Oregon residents who voted for the person and not for what the person was wearing or how he/she
looked or talked.


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#5 : November 08, 2008, 08:14:08 PM

Progress is moving beyond the original mold of 1787 United States. Blacks aren't slaves, blacks can vote, blacks can share drinking fountains, share schools, and now share the White House. This goes with every race in the nation. The next phase for progress is allowing gay marriage, stem cell research, abortion, etc. The farther we get away from the ancient rulebook (Bible), the better off we are.


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#6 : November 08, 2008, 08:24:31 PM

"Progress" is short for "Progressive" meaning the idea of radical change to promote an agenda aimed at what the person feels is a higher level of social living.

Progressives feel that not even the constitution should be solid law...that it should be changed (with or without society's consent) if it promotes the progressive utopian ideology.

The Bolsheviks are extreme examples of this. When they took over Russia in the October revolution of 1917, their ideology was only supported by about 10% of the population. A very slim minority. But that didnt stop them. They were so emotionally wrapped up in their belief that communism is better for everyone whether the people realize it or not that they were willing to push society to extremes where millions ended up dead. In other words, they think opinions dont matter, if you dont agree we will force you to agree. And if you still refuse, we will either push you out of the society or just take you out back and shoot you.
Now not all progressives are as radical as Marxists or Bolsheviks were, were but they still have that same ideology that if you dont agree with us then you are not to be held in any high esteem. You wont get promotions. You wont get jobs. You will be discriminated against and ridiculed. They begin to adopt totalitarianism to push their ideals on the society.

spartan

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#7 : November 08, 2008, 09:48:32 PM

Ouch Cyber, as you say, an extreme example but not far off the mark.

I was going to say that Progressives believe that nobody ought to be discriminated against in any shape or form, unless you think different to them,  in which case it is perfectly acceptable to discriminate against you.

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#8 : November 08, 2008, 10:37:10 PM

All the people i've met that call themselves "progressive" have been way on the radical left end of the spectrum and have some really funky ideas. And Im not exaggerating. They have ideas like that not only should pot be legal, but all drugs should be legal. It goes beyond racism and sexism and such.... Most of their ideas are well outside the mainstream.

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#9 : November 09, 2008, 01:09:16 AM

50 years ago, I bet a black president seemed pretty "funky." Times change, and so will people.


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#10 : November 09, 2008, 11:20:36 AM

I would venture to say that the vast majority does not understand we are not a democracy (a majority vote of free people) but a republic (governed by a constitution and subsequent law).

They do not necessarily equate nor do the wishes of a minority.

50 years ago the laws in many states would not have allowed a black individual to run for any office-or let alone even vote. This founders of this country didn't give women the right to vote either.

To effectively change anything, it has to be voted on by the people and the law be approved by the Supreme Court (if it gets that far).

In recent years, the States Righters (and others) have used the state constitution to "protect themselves" from a court system that has tended "to make law" rather than truly interpret our existing Constitution (state and federal). Sometimes this end up in the Supreme Court, but not often.

This is what I believe happened in California, Florida and other states that have passed similar legal definitions.

Progress is defined, IMO, by the will of the legal majority, not the wishes of he minority. That's also why its important to be aware of what is being voted on from the local level on up.

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981



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#11 : November 09, 2008, 12:07:05 PM

50 years ago, I bet a black president seemed pretty "funky." Times change, and so will people.

Agreed with that, times do change, but some of that also holds an agenda.  

Really what's in a word?  Progress sounds like such an easy word to hear, people like it when they make progress with either a task, or chore of sorts, or even just paying a bill.  But make the word progressive and it changes things a lot in what that really means.  

Progressive, is meant in such a way to be good intended because you think that you are doing good as a progressive. There were some things that made sense, like women's suffrage, civil rights, worker's compensation should someone get hurt on the job.  The true progressive movement in what gov't was meant to be smaller and still governed by the people was made up of a lot of conservative thinking people.  

Unfortunately as was mentioned in this thread, and much like what had been done in previous world history blunders, sometimes one uses a word to justify or a blanket term and skew what is really happening.  What was meant to be good intended, but really either goes too far, or leaves a lot open to be interpreted.  Margaret Sanger is one such example:

Quote
In her 1920 book, Woman and the New Race, Sanger explicitly called her work "nothing more or less than the facilitation of the process of weeding out the unfit, of preventing the birth of defectives or those who will become defectives." As she wrote in The Birth Control Review, "the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the overfertility of the mentally and physically defective."

Sanger did not rule out coercion if the "wrong" people had children. She wrote, "Possibly drastic and Spartan methods may be forced upon society if it continues complacently to encourage the chance and chaotic breeding that has resulted from our stupidly cruel sentimentalism."

Oliver Wendell Holmes, H.G. Wells, George Bernard Shaw, also played their part in the progressive movement, and fabian society.

Progressive sounds like such a nice word and concept, until you look at who has actually used it and what the agenda had been used from it.



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#12 : November 09, 2008, 12:10:17 PM

Progress is defined, IMO, by the will of the legal majority, not the wishes of he minority. That's also why its important to be aware of what is being voted on from the local level on up.

Agreed with this, and proof of that is what the progressive movement of late 19th century did v. early 20th century.  It is a term to hide an agenda, whether good or bad IMO.

Morgan

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#13 : November 09, 2008, 12:18:07 PM

I hear a lot of people throw in the word progress, especially Obama and UfoJoe, so what exactly is mean by that? What are we trying to progress towards. Because this is a football board, where is the proverbial "End Zone?"

Obama Will Need 18 Months to Turn Economy Around, Stiglitz Says

By Dawn Kopecki

Nov. 8 (Bloomberg) -- President-elect Barack Obama will need at least 18 months to turn around the U.S. economy, even if he ``does everything perfectly,'' Columbia University Professor Joseph Stiglitz said.

``It won't be easy,'' Nobel Prize-winning economist Stiglitz wrote in the Outlook section of early editions of tomorrow's Washington Post. ``More than 1.2 million private- sector jobs have already been shed this year, and by the end of the year an estimated 1.15 million people will have exhausted their unemployment-insurance benefits.''

Stiglitz said Obama, who's argued against cutting taxes for upper-income Americans, should also consider rolling back outgoing President George W. Bush's 2001 to 2003 tax cuts as well as taxing dividends and capital gains as ordinary income.

``It would reduce the deficit, have few short-term adverse effects on an already reeling economy and make the tax code more fair,'' he said.

Morgan

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#14 : November 09, 2008, 12:18:45 PM

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a1DGxJ12Gf5A&refer=home
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