Update: Surprising Turnabout on Prop. 8 by Attorney General Brown

[ufojoe]

Say what you want about Keith Olbermann but he gets it.



Putting aside the legal argument, KO said what I have been trying to say in many posts.
I have asked why you're against people trying to enter into a loving, committed relationship.
And I have yet to receive one response from anybody who is against gay marriage.

If anything, we should be encouraging this. They are in relationships and will remain in
relationships no matter what we think about them. So why not support them? Let them
be happy. It won't affect you and it won't affect your marriage. They're in love and they
want to get married. How can that be wrong? I just don't get it.

[Ironphist]

joe, i don't get it when a woman aborts a baby - AND I'M PRO CHOICE!!!  my great great great grandfather probably wouldn't get President Barack Obama either.

give this thing time.  any struggle worth overcoming has to fight the good fight, and it won't happen overnight.  as i've said before, they are their own worst enemy.  i don't think anybody would fight this if it weren't for the San Fran whack jobs defiling Catholic churches with their schtick and flinging their personal choices in people's faces.  those are the clowns that are slowing down their right to a life of misery with company - LOL!

i voted against it for that reason alone - the idiots in the streets making a spectacle of themselves and not making a point.  they are an embarrassment to the institution of marriage.  get that BS under control and have some average gay couple come on TV and make their case the way you do, and a very accepting and tolerant country that just put a black man in the white house as their leader will come around.

[BucFan9720]

Because marriage is between man and woman and its offensive and insulting to a straight couple to be defined the same way as something that is sin when they get married religiously.

Call it whatever the hell you wanna call it, but dont call it marriage.

[ufojoe]

Because marriage is between man and woman and its offensive and insulting to a straight couple to be defined the same way as something that is sin when they get married religiously.

They're not asking to get married religiously. If a church doesn't want to marry them, that is the right of that church.

[BucFan9720]

Because marriage is between man and woman and its offensive and insulting to a straight couple to be defined the same way as something that is sin when they get married religiously.

They're not asking to get married religiously. If a church doesn't want to marry them, that is the right of that church.

Marriage is a religious pact, and that includes aetheists as long as its between a man and a woman.

I dont give a **CENSORED** if gays get the same marital rights, just call it a civil union and be done with it. Why cant a compromise be made?

[Ironphist]

awi - abortion is a sin and Catholics voted overwhelmingly in favor of obama.  are you saying churches are the stable for hypocrisy?  the high and mighty argument holds no water.  their cause is what, 25 years old, roughly?  give it another 10 and we'll be attending bachelorette parties at sports bars.

[BucFan9720]

awi - abortion is a sin and Catholics voted overwhelmingly in favor of obama.  are you saying churches are the stable for hypocrisy?  the high and mighty argument holds no water.  their cause is what, 25 years old, roughly?  give it another 10 and we'll be attending bachelorette parties at sports bars.

Believe me, I'm not very religious and I dont think religion should play a deciding factor in politics. Were talking more about ethics here.

And by the way on abortion, the only way an abortion should be allowed is if the mother is in danger, or the woman involved was raped or there was incest. I was a child who was damn near abortioned but my parents stuck to their ethical beliefs and chose to keep me even though the financial situation was horrible, much worse than some 16 year olds who were being irresponsible. Either wrap it up, make sure your on the pill, or deal with the consequences. Dont be a **CENSORED**ing coward.

[oregonbucfan]

well Im not religious at all, abortion to me is just wrong. Just like gay marriage... you made the choice to be in a gay relationship, have your civil unions and get over it. Maybe Id be more for it, if I didnt have this gay crap shoved down my throat every day in Portland. Everyday Portlands gay mayor, mentiones hes gay. A suburb of Portland elected a transexual mayor and its this huge story, not to mention all I see are rainbow flags. Keep shoving it in our faces the more we will reject it. Go have your parades and civil unions

[Bucs Bowl]

I am in favor of Civil Unions. The fact that some want to call it marriage (which is defined by tradition as man and woman) is an insult to many (not all). I don't like it. My wife she says what does it hurt.. I say nothing but if I have a say I will speak my opinion. Until a majority decides then let it be...

We are governed by the people (NOT JUDGES!!!!!)

[ufojoe]

I keep hearing that they (gays/lesbians) are shoving it in your face.

I live near in the greater LA area and the only time I see it "shoved" in anyone's face is the rare occasion
when a gay rights parade is covered on the news and I happen to see the coverage. I can't even remember
the last time I saw a parade like that on the news. Other than that and elections like this one,  I just don't
hear much from the GLBT community.

What are you watching and where are you hanging out that this is always thrown in your face? Does the
rainbow flag really upset some of you? If so, then you have issues. I'd be more upset if somebody flew a
Carolina Panther flag outside their home.

[ufojoe]

Marriage is a religious pact, and that includes aetheists as long as its between a man and a woman.

As I said in other posts, my marriage took place in a court house and there was nothing religious
about it. It was a solely a legal ceremony. Go back and trace the history of marriage and you might
be surprised that it hasn't just been a religious institution but a civil one too. Many marriages were
all about a business/property rights in many parts of the world and religion played no role in them.

I dont give a crap if gays get the same marital rights, just call it a civil union and be done with it.
Why cant a compromise be made?

Well, I think it would be akin to Separate But Equal. But, let's say compromise is what we want.
In our hypothetical, all gay couples who have civil unions recognized in their state will receive
all state and federal benefits that go with marriage.

But what about the states where they voted to ban civil unions too? Is it OK for the people to vote
on that and keep those rights away from same sex couples? Or, how they banned gays from
adopting children in several states. That OK? Is that equal rights?

JG is the best one to explain the problems with federal benefits and how same sex couples get the
short end of the straw.

IMVHO, I think this is all coming to a head in the next few years. And nothing will stop GLBTs from
having what all of us have. And a few years after that happens, society will be just as messed up as
before. Or maybe we'll be on the up trend?

[ufojoe]

I love this quip from a gay rights blogger on Huff Post...

"...the grandest irony is that the amendment does not preclude gay marriage--a gay man can still legally marry a lesbian or heterosexual woman for example--it only prevent gays and lesbians from marrying the person they actually love."

The one good thing this has one is it has galvanized people all over the country on this issue. The rallies have been extremely
well attended and this Saturday, there are similar events planned all over the country, at the same time.

I may go to the LA rally...

Here's the website for those who want to attend...

http://jointheimpact.wetpaint.com/?t=anon



I like their slogan: Fight the H8

And no, I'm not saying all who support P8 are haters. It's just a very smart slogan.

[John Galt?]

Several posters on this thread said "it is an insult to me", how is it an insult? How is George Takei marrying some dude in San Fran and insult to someone in LA or Sarasota? If they don't interact with you, have no contact with you, how can you be insulted? Unless you are just hypersensitive.

Britney Spears was married, is that an insult to all "non-stupid and non-vapid" married people? Is any gay marriage more insulting than 90% of the celebrity marriages that last 6-9 months? It seems to me two people of the same gender marrying because they actually care about each other and wants to spend their lives together is a whole hell of a lot less insulting than two celebs marrying just to get free publicity and their faces on the cover of People.

I would like to hear one rational, logical reason why two people using a word to describe their relationship would be insulting.

[cyberdude557]

Because it IS shoving it in people's faces. The church does not support the marriage (except for a few radical churches). The society, religious or not, does not support the marriage. Yet the gays go to court and force the government to accept their relationship and then turn around and give society the finger and demand respect.

[John Galt?]

Because it IS shoving it in people's faces. The church does not support the marriage (except for a few radical churches). The society, religious or not, does not support the marriage. Yet the gays go to court and force the government to accept their relationship and then turn around and give society the finger and demand respect.

Please examine the definition of the words: rational, logical, and reason.

You gave NO reason. Your post was lacking in any logical progression of thought. And it was irrational.