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rowdie

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#30 : November 18, 2008, 10:19:59 AM

The guy has a bad game and the haters come out of the woodwork demanding he be cut/traded/benched and start McCown.

But the guy has a good game and everyone is quiet.

Obviously you wanted to see more touchdowns, but he had a lot to do with why the Bucs won yesturday.

You're not quite.

But I have to ask, why not just pimp Garcia in your message instead of antagonizing the "haterZ"?

DYK, we have a college football forum... http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0

bradentonian

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#31 : November 18, 2008, 10:38:22 AM

As far as QBs who have averaged at least 2 TDs per game, there are only two....Rivers with 21 and Warner with 20.


2TDs?  Hell, Garcia hasn't even been able to average 1TD per game.


Feel Real Good

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#32 : November 18, 2008, 10:44:20 AM

Threads like this=irrelevant
W's=relevant
It's that simple. What do the numbers really mean? 255 yards passing. Does that make you feel good? It's not bad. But OTOH 255 yards passing with only 19 points scored. They get one more big play on O and we lose 20-19, how would we feel?
Conversely if he had a day like Delhomme (under 100 yards passing) and wins, should we really feel worse?
You just hope our QB has it when it counts. So far, that's been the case 7/10 of the time.
C'mon this league is about continuously striving to improve every aspect of your team. One win here or there doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Just because the Bucs were winning while Dexter Jackson was tripping over himself didn't mean it was ok. You have to be able to stand back and say this may have worked today, but will it work again tomorrow?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

loweredexpectations

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#33 : November 18, 2008, 10:49:56 AM

One win here or there doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
Quote


hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. HA!

1sparkybuc

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#34 : November 18, 2008, 11:15:25 AM

Before the season started I stated my opinion that Jeff Garcia's major flaw was his inability to sustain drives in order to score TDs. That hasn't changed. I also said that at this point in his career, he is not going to improve and suddenly become efficient. He hasn't. The Bucs are near the bottom of the entire league in red zone TD percentage. One team has a QB who never started a game in college, much less the NFL. Two other teams have rookie QBs. The rest of the league has retreads and rejects and a majority of mediocre mundane journeymen QBs who somehow manage more TDs once they reach the twenty yard line. In the season opener and again against the Vikings, the Defense sets the offense up at mid-field, and Garcia can't even move the team fifty yards for a score. Matt Bryant should give half his paycheck to Jeff Garcia or at least hire him as his agent. Garcia does some good things but defenses know his limitations. Garcia is no deep threat and has trouble locating his receivers even when they are wide open, and why did it take him so long to make use of Jerremy Stevens? McCown had no problem finding him last year. I look at the games we have played so far and I doubt that our record would be any worse if McCown had been the starter. He at least gives the team the possibility of a deep threat.

Three teams played the Cowboys with Romo on the sidelines. The Bucs were the only team that lost to them. We lost because we don't have a QB starting who can get the team into the end zone. We are tied for 21st in scoring and the Defense has been a big part of that with field position and returns for TDs.

Looking at our remaining schedule, I am confident the Bucs will reach the playoffs. With Garcia at QB, I am also confident the first good team we meet will knock us out again.

McCown has the potential to get better with experience. Garcia is long past that. McCown could have built on this year to really be outstanding in the future. As it is, he might not even return to the Bucs next year. Who could blame him? Next year we start all over again with Griese and Josh Johnson. Hopefully we will be through with Garcia for good. He's not going to lead this team to the SB, and he is slowing the progress that could be made with someone who might still be in the league next year. Garcia and Griese are best suited to be emergency backups.

I am surprised that Garcia has lasted this long. I predicted he would miss games because of injury, but I expected he would play about half way through the season before it happened. Garcia, Dexter Jackson, and Michael Bennett, are Jon Gruden's biggest mistakes this year IMO.

Just for the record, I don't hate Jeff Garcia. I cheer for him every week. It's just that every other QB on the roster is better than he is in one form or another. The only advantage he has on everyone in the league (other than Brad Johnson and Brett Favre) is experience. Experience is not enough.

sammy8887

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#35 : November 18, 2008, 11:22:40 AM

The only advantage he has on everyone in the league (other than Brad Johnson and Brett Favre) is experience. Experience is not enough.

That and the ability to run around behind the LOS like a chicken with his head cut off and be called "gutsy" and "exciting"...

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#36 : November 18, 2008, 11:28:24 AM

Oh, Sparky. You're really just a Carmella lover who is jealous and taking it out on Jeff with that post.

I agree with everything in your post but Luke isn't getting a shot unless Jeff goes down. So, I'm just hoping
Jeff starts seeing some of those open receivers and improves on his red zone performance. I'm a fan but
I'm also a realist. Jeff is the best we have had but we have not had much.

Gruden said he had a great game, Chronic? Are you seriously going to use that to gauge anything? Didn't
Gruden say good things about Jeff in the New Orleans opener? Jeff had a good game. A little better
performance in the red zone and it would have been a great game, IMO.


TBayXXXVII

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#37 : November 18, 2008, 11:30:24 AM

Before the season started I stated my opinion that Jeff Garcia's major flaw was his inability to sustain drives in order to score TDs. That hasn't changed. I also said that at this point in his career, he is not going to improve and suddenly become efficient. He hasn't. The Bucs are near the bottom of the entire league in red zone TD percentage. One team has a QB who never started a game in college, much less the NFL. Two other teams have rookie QBs. The rest of the league has retreads and rejects and a majority of mediocre mundane journeymen QBs who somehow manage more TDs once they reach the twenty yard line. In the season opener and again against the Vikings, the Defense sets the offense up at mid-field, and Garcia can't even move the team fifty yards for a score. Matt Bryant should give half his paycheck to Jeff Garcia or at least hire him as his agent. Garcia does some good things but defenses know his limitations. Garcia is no deep threat and has trouble locating his receivers even when they are wide open, and why did it take him so long to make use of Jerremy Stevens? McCown had no problem finding him last year. I look at the games we have played so far and I doubt that our record would be any worse if McCown had been the starter. He at least gives the team the possibility of a deep threat.

Three teams played the Cowboys with Romo on the sidelines. The Bucs were the only team that lost to them. We lost because we don't have a QB starting who can get the team into the end zone. We are tied for 21st in scoring and the Defense has been a big part of that with field position and returns for TDs.

Looking at our remaining schedule, I am confident the Bucs will reach the playoffs. With Garcia at QB, I am also confident the first good team we meet will knock us out again.

McCown has the potential to get better with experience. Garcia is long past that. McCown could have built on this year to really be outstanding in the future. As it is, he might not even return to the Bucs next year. Who could blame him? Next year we start all over again with Griese and Josh Johnson. Hopefully we will be through with Garcia for good. He's not going to lead this team to the SB, and he is slowing the progress that could be made with someone who might still be in the league next year. Garcia and Griese are best suited to be emergency backups.

I am surprised that Garcia has lasted this long. I predicted he would miss games because of injury, but I expected he would play about half way through the season before it happened. Garcia, Dexter Jackson, and Michael Bennett, are Jon Gruden's biggest mistakes this year IMO.

Just for the record, I don't hate Jeff Garcia. I cheer for him every week. It's just that every other QB on the roster is better than he is in one form or another. The only advantage he has on everyone in the league (other than Brad Johnson and Brett Favre) is experience. Experience is not enough.

Perfectly stated.  If anyone tries to dispute this, they basically admit they don't know anything about football and their opinons mean very little.

ufojoe

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#38 : November 18, 2008, 11:34:27 AM

For those who think Sparky is a Garcia hater, check out his post after the New Orleans game
regarding Garcia and how he thought he played...

http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?topic=27642.0

Badabing

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#39 : November 18, 2008, 12:04:05 PM

Sparky you have a good arguement saying Garcia is a liability...although I disagree with you....but you lose all creditability as soon as you mention McCown's name.


Garcia is hands down our best QB and I didn't even think that was debatable until reading many of the people on this board's post.  Let's take a step back for a second.  Look at Garcia's numbers.  Yeah thats right, his numbers.....even those crappy TD numbers, and realize that the guy in his 6 starts has averaged over 250 yards a game through the air with a QB rating over 91 and a completion percentage of close to 70.

I dont know what it is about people that dont understand the game of football, i.e. Garcia haters...but TD passes aren't everthing.  I guess BJ Askews 1 yard TD run set up by Jerramy Stevens 31 yard catch means nothing.  Damn Earnest Graham and Clifton Smith for having cases of the fumbles the past 2 weeks as well.  Also, that darn Earnest Graham took away an easy 3 yard TD pass from Garcia in the Chiefs game.  Dang Nabbit.  In the Seattle game, Earnest Graham had a 1 yard TD run, which was what do you know set up by a 14 yard pass from GARCIA to Bryant.  In the Carolina game, Garcia srambled all the way to the 1 yard line, just for Graham to run it in from there.

So you see "Buc Fans", it isn't all about TD Passes when your QB is setting you up at the 1 yard line with his arm and legs, just so our backs can knock it in.  But hey why do I waste my time, the next argument will be our redzone problems and people won't take a look at our visits and look at some of the drives killed by penalties or some of the drives where Gruden was obviously playing for the field goal and running every play.  Dont get me wrong, we need to improve, but im confident in our team that we can do it when needed despite the past few weeks of us fumbling it away.

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#40 : November 18, 2008, 12:14:28 PM

I dont know what it is about people that dont understand the game of football, i.e. Garcia haters...but TD passes aren't everthing.

However, TDs are...

But hey why do I waste my time, the next argument will be our redzone problems and people won't take a look at our visits and look at some of the drives killed by penalties or some of the drives where Gruden was obviously playing for the field goal and running every play.

You're being what you claim the anti-Garcia folks are being -- biased...admit Garcia's faults in our red zone failures...when you have 5 red zone opportunities and come away with one TD, it's not all "circumstances" that led to that ineptitude...

GameTime

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#41 : November 18, 2008, 12:20:22 PM

bada - the problem isnt only that garcia isnt getting TD's, its that the TEAM isnt either.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

Badabing

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#42 : November 18, 2008, 12:20:54 PM

Sammy,

One of the redzone trips was killed by a Trueblood Penalty, the other Garcia was hit hard and was probably rattled, the other Gruden called a run play on 3rd and 1 and Dunn was stuffed, the one we scored a TD on, Garcia saved with his arm.  And the other one was Garcia fault, but I rather see him throw it away in that situation that force a throw, especially only up by 3.

Listen, we need to improve, but its not all Garcia fault, and Im amazed that people didnt think he had a good game yesterday.

Snake Pliskin

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#43 : November 18, 2008, 12:23:42 PM

But it's not all Garcia either. I'd say the blame probably lies 60/40 to Jeff here. Hopefully he'll get that working.

To be honest, the engine of this team is the running game. If we don't run well Jeff has had some long days. But when we are running the ball well, we look much better. Say what you will about Garcia, but this team goes as far as the running game and our defense/ST's takes us. I don't blame Jeff for that. Any team in the playoffs can get hot and run the table. Just like the Giants did last year. Just like we did in 2002. Just like the Colts did in 2006 (their defense was Godawful right up until the playoffs when Bob Sanders came back), etc, etc.



"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill

sammy8887

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#44 : November 18, 2008, 12:25:35 PM

Listen, we need to improve, but its not all Garcia fault, and Im amazed that people didnt think he had a good game yesterday.

He had a fine game stats-wise...his throw to Stevens was what set up the one TD...he also came up short more than once in the red zone -- again...

Check out this thread:

http://www.pewterreport.com/forum/index.php?topic=31345.0
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