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bradentonian

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#15 : November 24, 2008, 08:58:33 PM

Are you serious? Freeney wishes he could play run defense as good as Gaines, he wishes he could drop into coverage like Gaines, he also wishes he didn't take a two year break from the NFL. What Gaines has lacked in pass rush he's made up for in effort and play making.... and no Freeney doesn't get pressure on every play. I've seem him rountinely disappear from games.

This thread is about pass-rushing, not run-stopping or zone-blitz coverage.  Adams has a long way to go before he's anywhere near Freeney's zip code as a pass rusher.


Blaze688

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#16 : November 24, 2008, 09:01:06 PM

Which defensive end would you take?

Defensive End A - 72 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 7 forced fumbles, 2 passes defended (19 games)

Defensive End B - 68 tackles, 11 sacks, 8 passes defended, 2 interceptions (27 games)

Obiously -- because of the two picks -- "Defensive End B" is Gaines.  His stats are similar, but he's played in 8 more games.  To counter that fact, Gaines is much more situational than Freeney (who is out on the field as often as his stamina will allow).

Gaines looks like he's going to be the 'Joker' man on defense.  He'll never be the guy who logs 18 sacks in a season, but (in his prime) he'll grab 50 - 75 tackles, 10 sacks, 5 passes defensed, and an interception or two.


Boid Fink

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#17 : November 24, 2008, 09:06:39 PM

Are you serious? Freeney wishes he could play run defense as good as Gaines, he wishes he could drop into coverage like Gaines, he also wishes he didn't take a two year break from the NFL. What Gaines has lacked in pass rush he's made up for in effort and play making.... and no Freeney doesn't get pressure on every play. I've seem him rountinely disappear from games.
agree...

Gaines is a different type of defender than Freeney is. Gaines canbe utilized in a variety of ways. Ho wmany times have you seen him chase down running backs? Or drop nicely into coverage? Or get the QB to move in the pocket?

Freeney is a pure pass rusher, but he is no run stopper, as a matter of fact, he is rather bad in that regard. And he NEVER drops into coverage.

Apples and Oranges bro. I like Gaines, and coverage sack or not, he has the hustle to get there. If he doesn't guess what? The secondary gets shredded. It may be coverage related, but if it were not for Adams actually motoring over there, as he did several times a second too late, the QB will find a open man a split second later...

Call it what you want, but Gaines is a GREAT defensive player, and he is always in the mix at the LOS. He is no pushover, like Simeon Rice.

Simeon Rice is what gaines adams wishes he could be

simeon rice got sacks off the snap of the ball, all of his sacks werent coverage sacks...he got pressure way more than adams has

rice had double digit sack seasons in the first two years, which adams didn't[he's not on pace to this year]

I do agree that adams is pretty good dropping into coverage, and can play the run enough that he isn't a major liability...but i'd trade all of that in for someone who actually can pressure the qb, because right now adams is a non factor in that category

and for those that argued rice dissapeared for games and got most of his sacks in only a few of the games...well adams is the apitamy of doing that...he's had 5 of his sacks this year in 3 games....getting a sack in 3 out of 11 games is a horrible statistic..but the difference between him and rice is that rice got pressure even in the games he didn't get sacks...adams doesn't even get pressure the games he does get sacks..he'll get his one or two sacks and than be a non factor the rest of the game

I've never seen someone run 10 yards past the qb and off the screen so many consecutive plays in my life
I simply disagree...I think Gaines makes a QB move more often than you guys think, or apparently see.

He is a fine pass rusher, and if he were Simeon Rice, we would be getting gashed by all these great running backs.


barberandbrooks

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#18 : November 24, 2008, 09:08:11 PM

Which defensive end would you take?

Defensive End A - 72 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 7 forced fumbles, 2 passes defended (19 games)

Defensive End B - 68 tackles, 11 sacks, 8 passes defended, 2 interceptions (27 games)

Obiously -- because of the two picks -- "Defensive End B" is Gaines.  His stats are similar, but he's played in 8 more games.  To counter that fact, Gaines is much more situational than Freeney (who is out on the field as often as his stamina will allow).

Gaines looks like he's going to be the 'Joker' man on defense.  He'll never be the guy who logs 18 sacks in a season, but (in his prime) he'll grab 50 - 75 tackles, 10 sacks, 5 passes defensed, and an interception or two.

who's A?

but anyways...i don't think a joker who doesn't get that much pressure is worth the #4 overall pick

Booker

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#19 : November 24, 2008, 09:10:34 PM

LMAO. Are you serious? I mean I can understand your love for Freeny, no matter how scary it is, but to use it to attack a player of the team you call yourself a fan of is a joke.  Freeny is good at rushing the passer, but can't do anything else. There are reason why the Colts can not stop the run. I just can't stop laughing...Why attack Gaines? I mean did you hit on your wife?

barberandbrooks

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#20 : November 24, 2008, 09:12:59 PM

Are you serious? Freeney wishes he could play run defense as good as Gaines, he wishes he could drop into coverage like Gaines, he also wishes he didn't take a two year break from the NFL. What Gaines has lacked in pass rush he's made up for in effort and play making.... and no Freeney doesn't get pressure on every play. I've seem him rountinely disappear from games.
agree...

Gaines is a different type of defender than Freeney is. Gaines canbe utilized in a variety of ways. Ho wmany times have you seen him chase down running backs? Or drop nicely into coverage? Or get the QB to move in the pocket?

Freeney is a pure pass rusher, but he is no run stopper, as a matter of fact, he is rather bad in that regard. And he NEVER drops into coverage.

Apples and Oranges bro. I like Gaines, and coverage sack or not, he has the hustle to get there. If he doesn't guess what? The secondary gets shredded. It may be coverage related, but if it were not for Adams actually motoring over there, as he did several times a second too late, the QB will find a open man a split second later...

Call it what you want, but Gaines is a GREAT defensive player, and he is always in the mix at the LOS. He is no pushover, like Simeon Rice.

Simeon Rice is what gaines adams wishes he could be

simeon rice got sacks off the snap of the ball, all of his sacks werent coverage sacks...he got pressure way more than adams has

rice had double digit sack seasons in the first two years, which adams didn't[he's not on pace to this year]

I do agree that adams is pretty good dropping into coverage, and can play the run enough that he isn't a major liability...but i'd trade all of that in for someone who actually can pressure the qb, because right now adams is a non factor in that category

and for those that argued rice dissapeared for games and got most of his sacks in only a few of the games...well adams is the apitamy of doing that...he's had 5 of his sacks this year in 3 games....getting a sack in 3 out of 11 games is a horrible statistic..but the difference between him and rice is that rice got pressure even in the games he didn't get sacks...adams doesn't even get pressure the games he does get sacks..he'll get his one or two sacks and than be a non factor the rest of the game

I've never seen someone run 10 yards past the qb and off the screen so many consecutive plays in my life
I simply disagree...I think Gaines makes a QB move more often than you guys think, or apparently see.

He is a fine pass rusher, and if he were Simeon Rice, we would be getting gashed by all these great running backs.

I make an effort to watch adams on most defensive plays..he gets stoned or pushed past the qb way too many times for my liking

there are plenty of times when in the middle of a passing play, i'll think "why is it 3 guys rushing against 4 o lineman...than a half second later adams will trot back on screen from way behind the qb

Blaze688

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#21 : November 24, 2008, 09:15:11 PM

Which defensive end would you take?

Defensive End A - 72 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 7 forced fumbles, 2 passes defended (19 games)

Defensive End B - 68 tackles, 11 sacks, 8 passes defended, 2 interceptions (27 games)

Obiously -- because of the two picks -- "Defensive End B" is Gaines.  His stats are similar, but he's played in 8 more games.  To counter that fact, Gaines is much more situational than Freeney (who is out on the field as often as his stamina will allow).

Gaines looks like he's going to be the 'Joker' man on defense.  He'll never be the guy who logs 18 sacks in a season, but (in his prime) he'll grab 50 - 75 tackles, 10 sacks, 5 passes defensed, and an interception or two.

who's A?

but anyways...i don't think a joker who doesn't get that much pressure is worth the #4 overall pick

Defensive End A is Freeney...


Boid Fink

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#22 : November 24, 2008, 09:15:58 PM

Are you serious? Freeney wishes he could play run defense as good as Gaines, he wishes he could drop into coverage like Gaines, he also wishes he didn't take a two year break from the NFL. What Gaines has lacked in pass rush he's made up for in effort and play making.... and no Freeney doesn't get pressure on every play. I've seem him rountinely disappear from games.
agree...

Gaines is a different type of defender than Freeney is. Gaines canbe utilized in a variety of ways. Ho wmany times have you seen him chase down running backs? Or drop nicely into coverage? Or get the QB to move in the pocket?

Freeney is a pure pass rusher, but he is no run stopper, as a matter of fact, he is rather bad in that regard. And he NEVER drops into coverage.

Apples and Oranges bro. I like Gaines, and coverage sack or not, he has the hustle to get there. If he doesn't guess what? The secondary gets shredded. It may be coverage related, but if it were not for Adams actually motoring over there, as he did several times a second too late, the QB will find a open man a split second later...

Call it what you want, but Gaines is a GREAT defensive player, and he is always in the mix at the LOS. He is no pushover, like Simeon Rice.

Simeon Rice is what gaines adams wishes he could be

simeon rice got sacks off the snap of the ball, all of his sacks werent coverage sacks...he got pressure way more than adams has

rice had double digit sack seasons in the first two years, which adams didn't[he's not on pace to this year]

I do agree that adams is pretty good dropping into coverage, and can play the run enough that he isn't a major liability...but i'd trade all of that in for someone who actually can pressure the qb, because right now adams is a non factor in that category

and for those that argued rice dissapeared for games and got most of his sacks in only a few of the games...well adams is the apitamy of doing that...he's had 5 of his sacks this year in 3 games....getting a sack in 3 out of 11 games is a horrible statistic..but the difference between him and rice is that rice got pressure even in the games he didn't get sacks...adams doesn't even get pressure the games he does get sacks..he'll get his one or two sacks and than be a non factor the rest of the game

I've never seen someone run 10 yards past the qb and off the screen so many consecutive plays in my life
I simply disagree...I think Gaines makes a QB move more often than you guys think, or apparently see.

He is a fine pass rusher, and if he were Simeon Rice, we would be getting gashed by all these great running backs.

I make an effort to watch adams on most defensive plays..he gets stoned or pushed past the qb way too many times for my liking

there are plenty of times when in the middle of a passing play, i'll think "why is it 3 guys rushing against 4 o lineman...than a half second later adams will trot back on screen from way behind the qb
Look, this is all fine and dandy bro.

But the fact is, Simeon was a great pass rusher, but a piss poor run defender, and he got stoned by backup LTs on the regular.  He was a burst player, and while I respect him as a player, I think Gaines brings more to the table.  Also, I think Gaines might catch a hot streak and tally about 11 or so sacks.  And then what?  Suddenly you have your glitzy sack shine, youhave a run defending, interchangeable DE, and a DE who can drop into pass coverage...

Hmmm...

FWIW, I think Freeney is a monster at what he does, but the BUcs do harm to running backs because of guys like Gaines.  Not because of a guy like Simeon.


barberandbrooks

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#23 : November 24, 2008, 09:16:11 PM

LMAO. Are you serious? I mean I can understand your love for Freeny, no matter how scary it is, but to use it to attack a player of the team you call yourself a fan of is a joke. Freeny is good at rushing the passer, but can't do anything else. There are reason why the Colts can not stop the run. I just can't stop laughing...Why attack Gaines? I mean did you hit on your wife?

no....are YOU serious?

i'm not attacking adams because freeney is good...im simply comparing two top 5 draft picks who were supposed to be premiere pass rushers..one became one, and the other still hasn't

if you really think adams gets pass rush, than i suggest you watch the games instead of just following the play by play on gamecenter

Booker

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#24 : November 24, 2008, 09:20:15 PM

DID I ever say he gets the pass rush? Or was a better pass rusher than Freeny? I mean I know reading comprehension is tough at times, but we will get through it. Gaines does so much more than Freeny that it isn't even funny, but you can't see that. So I guess I am not the one missing the games

Boid Fink

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#25 : November 24, 2008, 09:21:39 PM

LMAO. Are you serious? I mean I can understand your love for Freeny, no matter how scary it is, but to use it to attack a player of the team you call yourself a fan of is a joke. Freeny is good at rushing the passer, but can't do anything else. There are reason why the Colts can not stop the run. I just can't stop laughing...Why attack Gaines? I mean did you hit on your wife?

no....are YOU serious?

i'm not attacking adams because freeney is good...im simply comparing two top 5 draft picks who were supposed to be premiere pass rushers..one became one, and the other still hasn't

if you really think adams gets pass rush, than i suggest you watch the games instead of just following the play by play on gamecenter
Gaines is a decent pass rusher.  He gets washed more visibly because he takes a big loop alot of the time.  Rice, if he got washed, was getting blanketed by a backup LT from Carolina...

And Freeney was a dud last year.  IS that a real pass rusher to you?


Boid Fink

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#26 : November 24, 2008, 09:23:13 PM

Actually in 06 and 07, Freeney was negligible.

He is a flash or bust player on plays.  He would be a nice situational player for the Bucs, but on third and short to mid, I would rather see Gaines in there.


barberandbrooks

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#27 : November 24, 2008, 09:23:47 PM

Which defensive end would you take?

Defensive End A - 72 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 7 forced fumbles, 2 passes defended (19 games)

Defensive End B - 68 tackles, 11 sacks, 8 passes defended, 2 interceptions (27 games)

Obiously -- because of the two picks -- "Defensive End B" is Gaines. �His stats are similar, but he's played in 8 more games. �To counter that fact, Gaines is much more situational than Freeney (who is out on the field as often as his stamina will allow).

Gaines looks like he's going to be the 'Joker' man on defense. �He'll never be the guy who logs 18 sacks in a season, but (in his prime) he'll grab 50 - 75 tackles, 10 sacks, 5 passes defensed, and an interception or two.

who's A?

but anyways...i don't think a joker who doesn't get that much pressure is worth the #4 overall pick

Defensive End A is Freeney...

I think it would be more fair to compare both of there first two seasons

Dwight freeney had 24 sacks and 13 forced fumbles in 32 games

Adams currenty has 11 sacks 2 forced fumbles and 2 ints in 27 games

Booker

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#28 : November 24, 2008, 09:25:17 PM

How is it more fair? Freeny is now in better condition so he should be putting up huge numbers. This is getting ridiculous the hate you have

barberandbrooks

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#29 : November 24, 2008, 09:29:39 PM

DID I ever say he gets the pass rush? Or was a better pass rusher than Freeny? I mean I know reading comprehension is tough at times, but we will get through it. Gaines does so much more than Freeny that it isn't even funny, but you can't see that. So I guess I am not the one missing the games

Again, its you....you're the one who needs to learn reading comprehension..This thread was clearly about pass rushing..people have been saying he's been great at pass rushing this year...I made this thread to argue against it, which you even admitted was true

I don't really care that he's mediocre against the run or that he's "pretty good" dropping into coverage...we didn't draft him to be a mediocre all around player...we drafted him because 2006 was a **CENSORED**ty year for our defense because of the lack of pass rush...we drafted a guy who was supposed to be a premiere right end, and that mean a guy who puts fear in opposing qb's because of the way he wreacks havoc in the backfield
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