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#105 : December 19, 2008, 09:57:55 AM

They were both equally unimpressive.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#106 : December 19, 2008, 11:12:01 AM

same goes for Alabama until some one can point out any valid reason why Shula was chosen over Croom.

Evidently, there isn't a valid way to compare two coaches who are in the same division of the same conference at the same time.

I meant the credentials of both BEFORE the hire .... What was on Shula's resume that made him stand out over Croom? You can make a farly good case for Chizik but I don't see it in the Shula/Croom comparison.
What was so huge on Croom's resume that made him stand out over Shula?

Again, their resumes were very similar, except Croom had been an assistant at Bama, and was older.

Crom had 10 years experience coaching at the collegiate level, Shula, none ....and Croom actually has an award named after him at Bama, doesn't he? The resumes are a no brainer in favor of Croom so there must have been another reason he wasn't chosen.


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You've already proven that you are clueless with regards to the Bama coaching situation back then. Why do you keeop bringing it up, as if you know what you are talking about?

SInce I'm clueless about the Bama coaching situation back then, what is YOUR hypotheis as to why Shula was given the job over Croom?

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#107 : December 19, 2008, 11:21:07 AM

If Shula's record at Alabama doesn't prove he was the better decision,

And it doesn't ...


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did Croom do anything to prove Alabama didn't hire the better coach?

No, as FRG both were pretty unimpressive ..... it's just that Shula was unimpressive with more resources.  8)


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#108 : December 19, 2008, 11:48:14 AM

Shula's unimpressive produced better results than Croom's unimpressive, but given the status of the programs I think it is fair to say they were equally unimpressive.

So then the talk about the black guy not getting the hire even though he was the better coach is a little ridiculous, right?


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#109 : December 19, 2008, 01:20:46 PM

Shula's unimpressive produced better results than Croom's unimpressive, but given the status of the programs I think it is fair to say they were equally unimpressive.

So then the talk about the black guy not getting the hire even though he was the better coach is a little ridiculous, right?

Didn't say Croom was the better coach, said he had the better credentials at that tme, which is indisputable. The question that I still haven't got answered is what was the reason they picked Shula over Croom. Mr M is obviously close to the program and knows for a fact that it had nothing to do with race .... I'm just asking why do you give a head coaching job at one of the premiere programs in the country to someone who had never even coached at the college level?

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#110 : December 19, 2008, 01:32:26 PM

I'm just asking why do you give a head coaching job at one of the premiere programs in the country to someone who had never even coached at the college level?
As I said Shula was hired in May after Mike Price imploded. Even Alabama wasn't going to get a legit college coach at that time of the year.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#111 : December 19, 2008, 01:37:00 PM

I'm just asking why do you give a head coaching job at one of the premiere programs in the country to someone who had never even coached at the college level?
As I said Shula was hired in May after Mike Price imploded. Even Alabama wasn't going to get a legit college coach at that time of the year.

But why Shula over Croom? He, at least, had some coaching experience at the college level...

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#112 : December 19, 2008, 02:36:05 PM

I'm just asking why do you give a head coaching job at one of the premiere programs in the country to someone who had never even coached at the college level?
As I said Shula was hired in May after Mike Price imploded. Even Alabama wasn't going to get a legit college coach at that time of the year.
to
But why Shula over Croom? He, at least, had some coaching experience at the college level...

I don't see what coaching at the collegiate level matters.  The coaching experience in the NFL trumps the experience in college, IMO.

Croom was a coach at Alabama, so I would assume the decision makers knew what kind of coach he was.  Croom was coach for a long time in the NFL, and only one time did he get elevated above a position coach.  Race could be a factor, but there were other black coaches who had moved up the ladder.

Maybe Alabama thought they were getting what Florida got in Spurrier.  A former alum QB who could turn their program around.  I don't know.  Obviously, it didn't work out and they have moved on.

I do know Croom never did anything to prove that he was the better coach and Alabama made the wrong decision.  If you want to say race was the reason Croom didn't get the job, you could be right...but people normally see what they are looking for.


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#113 : December 19, 2008, 03:16:28 PM

I'm just asking why do you give a head coaching job at one of the premiere programs in the country to someone who had never even coached at the college level?
As I said Shula was hired in May after Mike Price imploded. Even Alabama wasn't going to get a legit college coach at that time of the year.
to
But why Shula over Croom? He, at least, had some coaching experience at the college level...

I don't see what coaching at the collegiate level matters.  The coaching experience in the NFL trumps the experience in college, IMO.

I think ND fans may have a difference f opinion with you on that....  ;)



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Croom was a coach at Alabama, so I would assume the decision makers knew what kind of coach he was.  Croom was coach for a long time in the NFL, and only one time did he get elevated above a position coach.  Race could be a factor, but there were other black coaches who had moved up the ladder.

Maybe Alabama thought they were getting what Florida got in Spurrier.  A former alum QB who could turn their program around.  I don't know.  Obviously, it didn't work out and they have moved on.

I do know Croom never did anything to prove that he was the better coach and Alabama made the wrong decision.  If you want to say race was the reason Croom didn't get the job, you could be right...but people normally see what they are looking for.

Honestly, and again, I'm not saying that race was the sole reason but those who totally dismiss that there wasn't even a possibility that it came into play are being hopelessly naive, IMO ... obviously that's not aimed at you.

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#114 : December 19, 2008, 03:32:06 PM

Honestly, and again, I'm not saying that race was the sole reason but those who totally dismiss that there wasn't even a possibility that it came into play are being hopelessly naive, IMO ... obviously that's not aimed at you.

I never totally dismissed race as being a factor, but I do think Alabama hired who they thought would be the best coach, white, black or otherwise.  Both had minimal experience calling plays, at any level, and both were alums.  I think age might have been more of a factor than race.  So the "ageist" people should have been there with Jesse Jackson.


I think ND fans may have a difference f opinion with you on that....  ;)

Some guys have it, some guys don't.  I actually like Weis, a lot, as a coach.  He just doesn't have the horses at Notre Dame.


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#115 : December 19, 2008, 03:47:42 PM

I think ND fans may have a difference f opinion with you on that....� ;)

Some guys have it, some guys don't.  I actually like Weis, a lot, as a coach.  He just doesn't have the horses at Notre Dame.
You can't be serious.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#116 : December 19, 2008, 03:59:22 PM

I think ND fans may have a difference f opinion with you on that....� ;)

Some guys have it, some guys don't.  I actually like Weis, a lot, as a coach.  He just doesn't have the horses at Notre Dame.
You can't be serious.

Not one bit.

I would love to have him as an Offensive Coordinator for the Bucs.  He was great when he had the players...Brady Quinn and Tom Brady.  Jimmy Claussen sucks.  That kid was so overrated in High School.


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#117 : December 19, 2008, 04:03:38 PM

Honestly, and again, I'm not saying that race was the sole reason but those who totally dismiss that there wasn't even a possibility that it came into play are being hopelessly naive, IMO ... obviously that's not aimed at you.

I never totally dismissed race as being a factor, but I do think Alabama hired who they thought would be the best coach, white, black or otherwise.  Both had minimal experience calling plays, at any level, and both were alums.  I think age might have been more of a factor than race.  So the "ageist" people should have been there with Jesse Jackson.

The AARP haven't been as diligent as they should have been about this sort of thing .... I've sent a detailed email apprising them of the situation.


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I think ND fans may have a difference f opinion with you on that....� ;)

Some guys have it, some guys don't.  I actually like Weis, a lot, as a coach.  He just doesn't have the horses at Notre Dame.

His drafts had to have been better that Syracuse's the last 4 years. I've got to believe that talent isn't the biggest problem there ...

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#118 : December 19, 2008, 04:06:34 PM

I think ND fans may have a difference f opinion with you on that....� ;)

Some guys have it, some guys don't.  I actually like Weis, a lot, as a coach.  He just doesn't have the horses at Notre Dame.
You can't be serious.

Not one bit.

I would love to have him as an Offensive Coordinator for the Bucs.  He was great when he had the players...Brady Quinn and Tom Brady.  Jimmy Claussen sucks.  That kid was so overrated in High School.

If you're saying he's over his head as a college HC, I'd have to agree ..... I'd love him as the Bucs OC too .... maybe even as HC if Gruden ever moves on.

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#119 : December 19, 2008, 04:14:35 PM

Weis was 19-6 with Willingham's players and he's 9-15 with his own.

Personally, I think he hung his hat on the wrong player in Claussen...but it could be that he just isn't as good of a recruiter as Willingham.

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