Kiper's New Big Board Top 5

[bklynbucs11]

Let me ask this question to those of you who want a franchise QB. What the hell do you have against Gradkowski? I've heard the usual bobble-heads about how "oh, no arm strength" (even though he easily has enough to run the WCO, see Jeff) "oh, he makes stupid decisions" (kind of the rule for rookie QB's - ALL rookie QB's make bad ones) "oh, he can't hit open receivers" (even though he has a higher completion percentage than Vince Young and slightly lower than Lienhart/Cutler (except that Lienhart has the best WR duo in the NFL and Cutler has much better protection and better overall offensive line). Of course some people will bring up the fumbles (except that Vince Young has 12 fumbles vs. Grad's 11). Here's the bottom line - he was a MAJOR reason for our victory in Cinci, he WAS the reason we almost beat N.O. in the first game, had a helluva game against the Skins, etc.

So, what the hell else do you want? Would you like him to come to your house and perform fellatio? I mean seriously, he's a ROOKIE who by the way, has shown more progression than Chris Simms has in 3 years - THREE. Simms is more physically talented, but he's shown us hit ability to actually run the WCO when Gruden actually had him throwing to win games (ala Baltimore & Atlanta). You all say he's a career backup - I say Bull****. He'll be a damn good starter for us. You can't expect 6th round rookies to come into a season and throw 35 TD's and 4000 yards. Tom Brady came in his 2nd season, Bulger his 3rd. When Gruden benched him - it was probably the best thing that could have happened for Grad. Its clear he doesn't completely know the system or trust in the offense - YET. This is typical for rookies, which is why 60% of rookie QB's sit for at least one season. Grad probably needs 2 because of the complex nature of Gruden's offense.

Bottom line- no reason in hell that we should be even looking at QB's in the next 2 years. I say give Bruce time. He's shown plenty last year (and I know, there will be people coming to tell me about his physical mishaps) and should only improve from here. He CAN play in the NFL, he's shown that several times this season and should keep getting better.

Like it or not, mark my words. he will be our starter either by the end of next season or the beginning of 2008. And you'll all be thankful we got him and drafted someone like Thomas to give him time in the pocket rather than drafting Russell's hype or Quinn's flops in big games.

[CeriousBuc]

Okay, see this is why I sometimes dislike our own fans. I mean can't anyone be levelheaded? Not too much of a homer and not too much of a gloom and doomer?

Who here said a word about Gradkowski? Or even mentioned that they had a problem with him?

The point was that franchise QBs are very valuable players. You don't pass on Carson Palmer unless you have a John Elway in his prime on your roster. Gradkowski is okay, but he may never develop into anything more than a backup with tons of moxie. IMO, it's like comparing Anthony Davis to Joe Thomas. Sure A.D. works his behind off, but his potential has been realized, he'll never be the franchise LT that Thomas will become. The same can be said of Gradkowski, who really regressed more than he progressed during the season.

[cvillebucfan]

Okay, see this is why I sometimes dislike our own fans. I mean can't anyone be levelheaded? Not too much of a homer and not too much of a gloom and doomer?

Who here said a word about Gradkowski? Or even mentioned that they had a problem with him?

The point was that franchise QBs are very valuable players. You don't pass on Carson Palmer unless you have a John Elway in his prime on your roster. Gradkowski is okay, but he may never develop into anything more than a backup with tons of moxie. IMO, it's like comparing Anthony Davis to Joe Thomas. Sure A.D. works his behind off, but his potential has been realized, he'll never be the franchise LT that Thomas will become. The same can be said of Gradkowski, who really regressed more than he progressed during the season.

No crap ceious. The whole sensitivity things is lame around here with some people...

Okay, see this is why I sometimes dislike our own fans. I mean can't anyone be levelheaded? Not too much of a homer and not too much of a gloom and doomer?

Who here said a word about Gradkowski? Or even mentioned that they had a problem with him?

The point was that franchise QBs are very valuable players. You don't pass on Carson Palmer unless you have a John Elway in his prime on your roster. Gradkowski is okay, but he may never develop into anything more than a backup with tons of moxie. IMO, it's like comparing Anthony Davis to Joe Thomas. Sure A.D. works his behind off, but his potential has been realized, he'll never be the franchise LT that Thomas will become. The same can be said of Gradkowski, who really regressed more than he progressed during the season.

I sort of agree with you.  Gradkowski is still a potentially viable project.  My question is more: who is the John Elway in this draft?  Quinn is overrated, IMO.  Russell doesn't have the intelligence/work ethic to make him worthy for a top 4 pick.  Troy Smith is a late first day guy...Who else?

For now, I think we stick with Simms or take a QB a bit lower.

[leeroybuc93]

1. Calvin Johnson (WR Georgia Tech)
2. Brady Quinn (QB Notre Dame)
3. Joe Thomas (OT Wisconson)
4. Jamarcus Russell (QB LSU)
5. Jamaal Anderson (DE Arkansas)

Really nothing shocking there except for Gaines Adams falling.

He's said all along that he'd move Anderson ahead of Adams if he came out so this isn't really shocking.

I never actually listen when he speaks so it's shocking to me.

[cvillebucfan]

I don't think cerious is advocating drafting a qb but simply saying that if our worst case is drafting a franchise QB its not that bad. You may not like Quinn and think he is this and that and no good. Many people thought Rothelisberger played in a JV conference and couldn't play in the NFL. Quinn will go high and for good reason. He is arguable the best prospect at the QB position in this draft, which happens to be the most important position.

Do I want a QB, no I dont but would I cry a river if we did draft a QB, no I wouldn't. I hope we dont draft a QB but as cerious said if that is our worst case, its not that bad...

[goto11]

Why would the Bucs want to become even less experienced at QB?  They don't need another rookie, especially not the ones that are projected that high.  Quinn is certainly overrated.  I haven't seen enough of Russell to form an opinion on him, but there are SO MANY other needs.  Free agency will net the Bucs a good vet to compete with Simms to be the starter.  I'd really like to see them use their first rounder on defense, but a LT would be fine, too.  But not a QB.

Seriously, I see Joey Harrington written all over Brady Quinn.

[leeroybuc93]

Let me ask this question to those of you who want a franchise QB. What the hell do you have against Gradkowski? I've heard the usual bobble-heads about how "oh, no arm strength" (even though he easily has enough to run the WCO, see Jeff) "oh, he makes stupid decisions" (kind of the rule for rookie QB's - ALL rookie QB's make bad ones) "oh, he can't hit open receivers" (even though he has a higher completion percentage than Vince Young and slightly lower than Lienhart/Cutler (except that Lienhart has the best WR duo in the NFL and Cutler has much better protection and better overall offensive line). Of course some people will bring up the fumbles (except that Vince Young has 12 fumbles vs. Grad's 11). Here's the bottom line - he was a MAJOR reason for our victory in Cinci, he WAS the reason we almost beat N.O. in the first game, had a helluva game against the Skins, etc.

So, what the hell else do you want? Would you like him to come to your house and perform fellatio? I mean seriously, he's a ROOKIE who by the way, has shown more progression than Chris Simms has in 3 years - THREE. Simms is more physically talented, but he's shown us hit ability to actually run the WCO when Gruden actually had him throwing to win games (ala Baltimore & Atlanta). You all say he's a career backup - I say Bull****. He'll be a damn good starter for us. You can't expect 6th round rookies to come into a season and throw 35 TD's and 4000 yards. Tom Brady came in his 2nd season, Bulger his 3rd. When Gruden benched him - it was probably the best thing that could have happened for Grad. Its clear he doesn't completely know the system or trust in the offense - YET. This is typical for rookies, which is why 60% of rookie QB's sit for at least one season. Grad probably needs 2 because of the complex nature of Gruden's offense.

Bottom line- no reason in hell that we should be even looking at QB's in the next 2 years. I say give Bruce time. He's shown plenty last year (and I know, there will be people coming to tell me about his physical mishaps) and should only improve from here. He CAN play in the NFL, he's shown that several times this season and should keep getting better.

Like it or not, mark my words. he will be our starter either by the end of next season or the beginning of 2008. And you'll all be thankful we got him and drafted someone like Thomas to give him time in the pocket rather than drafting Russell's hype or Quinn's flops in big games.

I didn't know there were any people like you left.  Say CJ and Thomas are gone and we get DE's in free agency.  You want to pass on Russell or Quinn because we have Gradkowski?  Wake up man!

[CeriousBuc]

Okay, see this is why I sometimes dislike our own fans. I mean can't anyone be levelheaded? Not too much of a homer and not too much of a gloom and doomer?

Who here said a word about Gradkowski? Or even mentioned that they had a problem with him?

The point was that franchise QBs are very valuable players. You don't pass on Carson Palmer unless you have a John Elway in his prime on your roster. Gradkowski is okay, but he may never develop into anything more than a backup with tons of moxie. IMO, it's like comparing Anthony Davis to Joe Thomas. Sure A.D. works his behind off, but his potential has been realized, he'll never be the franchise LT that Thomas will become. The same can be said of Gradkowski, who really regressed more than he progressed during the season.

I sort of agree with you.  Gradkowski is still a potentially viable project.  My question is more: who is the John Elway in this draft?  Quinn is overrated, IMO.  Russell doesn't have the intelligence/work ethic to make him worthy for a top 4 pick.  Troy Smith is a late first day guy...Who else?

For now, I think we stick with Simms or take a QB a bit lower.

Well, not "who is the John Elway of the draft?" but who is the Carson Palmer. My point was that you can't pass on a potential franchise QB unless you already have a franchise QB on your roster.

I too, would rather go in a different direction than draft a Qb, but the two possibly three (with Brohm) QB's in this years draft are intriguing. Quinn has been trained by one of the best pro coaches not currently in the NFL. Russell has the physical attributes of a franchise QB. And Brohm is somewhere between the two. When you look at it that way, drafting a QB might not be the worst move we could make.

[goto11]

Sure A.D. works his behind off, but his potential has been realized

I've been trying to think of an eloquent way to say this exact thing.  Excellent.

[cvillebucfan]

I didn't know there were any people like you left.  Say CJ and Thomas are gone and we get DE's in free agency.  You want to pass on Russell or Quinn because we have Gradkowski?  Wake up man!

HAHA, well put !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CeriousBuc]

Seriously, I see Joey Harrington written all over Brady Quinn.

Why would you see that? Harrington was a product of Jeff Tedford, and his QBs historically have not done well in the NFL. Quinn on the other hand was coached by the same guy who coached up Brady. There isn't a comparison really.

[dalbuc]

I just don't see a whole lot to not like about either Quinn or Russell. I hadn't seen a lot of Russell this season but she showed me vs. ND exactly what I assume a lot of other folks have seen out of him all year and it looked awfully good. Gradkowski might be Tim Rattay in a few years- and that is a great thing out of an R6 pick- but we're not looking for Tim Rattay.

[goto11]

Why would you see that? Harrington was a product of Jeff Tedford, and his QBs historically have not done well in the NFL. Quinn on the other hand was coached by the same guy who coached up Brady. There isn't a comparison really.

I understand Tedford's coaching history and how that doomed Harrington.  Point taken.  But between Quinn's slow wind-up and release (a la Chris Simms) and his apparent confusion in recognizing complicated defenses, I just feel he's not worth a top 3 pick.

[leeroybuc93]

Why would you see that? Harrington was a product of Jeff Tedford, and his QBs historically have not done well in the NFL. Quinn on the other hand was coached by the same guy who coached up Brady. There isn't a comparison really.

I understand Tedford's coaching history and how that doomed Harrington. Point taken. But between Quinn's slow wind-up and release (a la Chris Simms) and his apparent confusion in recognizing complicated defenses, I just feel he's not worth a top 3 pick.

He's never looked confused by defenses to me.  He has a problem when he's running like a chicken with his head cut off because his line is terrible.  He's also got a very quick release.  I've seen it and it's something every scout mentions.  It is nowhere near Simms'.